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geared manual mill

edl

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Location
Southeast USA
Hello

I wonder what folks might recommend for a manual mill (vertical or universal) to handle work larger than what your typical Bridgeport might handle

I am not considering cnc...my understanding is that to do just one part or a job here or there the set up time outweighs the convenience

I would hope to replace a couple of smaller mills with this mill (the smaller ones are an Index 40 and an Index 645) only because budget will not allow me to have 3 mills

I hope to get away from changing belts to change speeds

So I am thinking of a gear head mill, with powered feeds

A friend has a couple of machines he is selling from his shop - Lagun FU4 and an OKK MH-3vII both from the 1970's (they are similarly priced)

The Lagun is a universal mill and so is both vertical and horizontal ... i have no experience with the Lagun's execution but the thought of a 2 in 1 seems nice

Are there other mills out there that would fit this bill in say the $4-6K range?

I have searched the forum and didn't find anything quite on point - if this is in the wrong forum, apologies in advance......

Thanks!
 
anyone have experience with OKK or Lagun? how do they compare to the kt or cincinnati?
Both of those are brand name machines with a decent reputation ... but as for comparing to k&t and cincy, what you will miss with most of those big honkers is the quill. That's more important than the brand. You want a quill for onesy-twosy general work.

Strictly between k&t and cincy, the k&t is 100 times easier to work on.

Another one to look for that's slightly bigger than a Bridgeport is a 2-30 Gorton. That's more of an upsized ram-type machine, except that Gortons generally have smaller travel than Bridgeport in the same size machine. They cared about accuracy and stability, silly guys :)

They made some #3 Gortons also. Pretty rare but I have seen a few.

OR, if you want to make yourself happy for the rest of your life, a 2B Devlieg. Now THAT is a milling machine that's capable as well as handy.
 
Rambaudi is another somewhat-heavier-than-Bridgeport mill. They show up occasionally for sale and there's a thread on rebuilding one if you want to see the insides.
 
Was going to mention Rambaudi^. I just picked up a bridgeport style machine made by them with a 40taper vertical, 50taper horizontal and 3 axis powerfeed/rapid. It is much heavier built than the beaver mill I also have, and people say that's heavier built than a bridgeport. Also have a k&t horizontal that is a bit heavier built than the rambaudi.

Next step up would be a small boring mill I would think.
 
Are you going to do any drilling? Drilling on a knee mill without a quill is a challenge. Not much daylight under a vertical spindle, and not handy to break chips.

Have you considered a Bridgeport Series II? Not the new ones, but the old ones with a 4 hp head, separate VS powerfeed to the quill, and power feed for the knee, saddle, and table. Yes, the head is variable pitch sheave, but is just as fast to go from full slow to full fast as mechanically changing gears. The VS feeds are very nice to work into a cut and adjust as conditions allow.

Beyond that, consider a small horizontal boring mill if your situation allows. A 2B36 Devlieg is as handy as a pocket on a shirt and takes up less room than two standard Bridgeports. The biggest downside is 14,000#.
 
Are you going to do any drilling? Drilling on a knee mill without a quill is a challenge. Not much daylight under a vertical spindle, and not handy to break chips.

Have you considered a Bridgeport Series II? Not the new ones, but the old ones with a 4 hp head, separate VS powerfeed to the quill, and power feed for the knee, saddle, and table. Yes, the head is variable pitch sheave, but is just as fast to go from full slow to full fast as mechanically changing gears. The VS feeds are very nice to work into a cut and adjust as conditions allow.

Beyond that, consider a small horizontal boring mill if your situation allows. A 2B36 Devlieg is as handy as a pocket on a shirt and takes up less room than two standard Bridgeports. The biggest downside is 14,000#.

That might be my new holy grail of manual milling.
 
Thanks for the replies

Yes to drilling

Am I understanding correctly that none of the OKK, KT, or Cinncy have quills?

The OKK is a bed type mill, so there is vertical travel in the head...is that effectively the same as a quill?
 
Some of them do, but not with a drill press style quill with a handle. They will have a handwheel/worm gear for fine feed, and they usually don't have the same amount of travel as a bridgeport on the quill. The only Okk milling machine I saw in person was a huge horizontal with about a 10'-12' long table. Sounds like the OKK you are looking at will have the handwheel style quill, but I have been wrong before.
 
That might be my new holy grail of manual milling.
If you come across one, GRAB IT ! They are so enjoyable to run, and capable, and handy, and accurate. Just a beautiful machine.

Thinking of the op, there's been one of those Deckels that's like the FP4 except with the really big table that's supported on a longer base floating around on Craigslist for a long time. That might be another possibility.
 
I can't quite get my head around the 2B36 Devlieg - is it just for boring or is it also for milling (not sure if that was intended as a recommendation to me or an aside)

As for drilling, on a machine that does not have a quill, that is done strictly by raising the knee (or lowering the head on something like the OKK where the table is fixed for z travel)? i agree it seems it would be hard to make fine adjusts moving the entire knee manually (and power feed without a very precise stop seems to lack control)....

EDIT: an example of Deckel mill here: Deckel FP4 Vertical/Horizontal Mill # 2046 | eBay
 
The 2B36 and the Series II Bridgeport were both made as serious suggestions given your limited information.

Drilling without a quill is a pain. Depending on the project, you may go from a 4" total length spot drill to a 14" total length MT drill. Sure, you can move the knee up with the rapid, but sooner or later you will crash into the drill. A quill or bar is so fast to run up to the part and kick in the power feed. For long drills you will have to reposition the knee on the big Bridgeport, but that is power raise/lower. The DeVlieg has 12" on the bar and 12" on the table.

As for milling on the DeVlieg, the factory called the machines Jigmills, and advertised them as "Precision Boring and Milling Machines". The suitability depends on your part configuration and whether you can wrap your head around the concept of a horizontal spindle. Its great for workpieces where the work surface is 90 degrees to the locating face. Where you are working on the opposite face, DeVlieg supplied angle plates appropriate to the mill.
 
Both of those are brand name machines with a decent reputation ... but as for comparing to k&t and cincy, what you will miss with most of those big honkers is the quill. That's more important than the brand. You want a quill for onesy-twosy general work.

Strictly between k&t and cincy, the k&t is 100 times easier to work on.

Another one to look for that's slightly bigger than a Bridgeport is a 2-30 Gorton. That's more of an upsized ram-type machine, except that Gortons generally have smaller travel than Bridgeport in the same size machine. They cared about accuracy and stability, silly guys :)

They made some #3 Gortons also. Pretty rare but I have seen a few.

OR, if you want to make yourself happy for the rest of your life, a 2B Devlieg. Now THAT is a milling machine that's capable as well as handy.

I have tried hard to figure out if the OKK or the Lagun have a quill - can't tell - I don't think the OKK does because I don't see any controls up by the head - given it is a bed type mill, the entire head moves up and down...so maybe that is in lieu of a quill?

Pictures I have seen of the Lagun FU4 don't show any controls right neear the spindle...so...?

On the old iron, is there a reason that a C&T - CH horizontal mill would be any more appealing than an H #3 Universal, if both have don't have the vertical head attachment (so would have to pick that up separately)...there is someone selling both those machines...and the CH seems to be a lot more active...not sure why ... they are the same vintage and condition?
 
I think the CH has higher spindle speeds than the H. If either has rear controls that would be the preferable mill. It allows you to drive it like a miniature boring mill, where you can see the tool and the workpiece. Except for dividing head work, I don't know what you would do with a universal.
 








 
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