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  1. #61
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    A story copied from somewhere I cant remember.

    ALICE LOSES HER SHIRT
    Paul Niedzielski

    Another story, not strictly about a shop, but which is absolutely true, as I was there to witness
    it, illustrates nicely a basic safety tenet.

    I was working as staff engineer in a textile plant. One of the picker operators was a magnificently endowed - and bra-less - young woman. One day while operating her machine, she got too close and caught her shirt - which because of her figure hung out from her front anyway - in one of the rolls. She braced herself on the roll guard and wasn't hurt, but her shirt was torn completely off. She looked at the machine for a second or two, and then turned and walked, in all her majesty, to the personnel and safety office at the plant entrance. This took all of about 15 seconds.

    In that short space of time, we had 4 reportable injuries: two forklift accidents, one black eye from running into a support pole, and one fellow put his hand through the glass door of a recording pyrometer. Incidentally, all of those hurt were male.

    This episode illustrates another valuable point: when you are working with machinery, always pay attention to what you are doing.
    Distractions, regardless of how distracting, can be hazardous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilGunsmith View Post
    A story copied from somewhere I cant remember.

    ALICE LOSES HER SHIRT
    Paul Niedzielski

    Another story, not strictly about a shop, but which is absolutely true, as I was there to witness
    it, illustrates nicely a basic safety tenet.

    I was working as staff engineer in a textile plant. One of the picker operators was a magnificently endowed - and bra-less - young woman. One day while operating her machine, she got too close and caught her shirt - which because of her figure hung out from her front anyway - in one of the rolls. She braced herself on the roll guard and wasn't hurt, but her shirt was torn completely off. She looked at the machine for a second or two, and then turned and walked, in all her majesty, to the personnel and safety office at the plant entrance. This took all of about 15 seconds.

    In that short space of time, we had 4 reportable injuries: two forklift accidents, one black eye from running into a support pole, and one fellow put his hand through the glass door of a recording pyrometer. Incidentally, all of those hurt were male.

    This episode illustrates another valuable point: when you are working with machinery, always pay attention to what you are doing.
    Distractions, regardless of how distracting, can be hazardous.
    Based on the logic of some posters here well endowed women with no bra should be banned from wearing shirts around equipment.

    I'm Alloy and I support this message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alloy Mcgraw View Post
    Based on the logic of some posters here well endowed women with no bra should be banned from wearing shirts around equipment.

    I'm Alloy and I support this message.
    How will the rest of the shop get any work done?

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    Damn! Went away for a few days to deal with a death in the family and all hell breaks loose! Personal insults and all? Wow!

    The right way to respond would have been to ask for details.

    For example: HOW THE F--K WOULD I GET GLOVES ANYWHERE CLOSE TO A VF2'S ROTATING SPINDLE WHEN WE HAVE IT SETUP SO IT WILL NOT RUN AT ALL WITH THE DOORS OPEN?

    Why would anyone use gloves anywhere near anything that is spinning? Really? That was your assumption when posting "you are a dumbshit" replies to my question? How about taking a moment to understand first and ask for context?

    All I was asking about was for a better idea for gloves while handling steel to move it around and load/unload the machine. That's the extent of it. I don't flail my hands around while wearing leather gloves near any rotating anything, not even sanders.

    I've been using mostly nitrile gloves. They tear if I look at them wrong. Even then, they never go anywhere anything that is rotating, even slowly.

    Some of the posts were followed by dubmshit examples. Like the example of someone using gloves to sand a 10 inch diameter (or whatever) part on a spinning lathe. Really? How is that the fault of the gloves. Your hands should not be anywhere near anything like that.

    Anyhow. Like I said. I just went through dealing with the death of a family member just as I posted for help --my mother, if you must know. So I have very little patience for ass--les. If you can't help, then keep it to yourself. It's OK to warn someone. No issues there. It isn't OK to insult and belittle people. What if I was a young student getting into the trade? Read through the f---ing comments some of you posted and see if that's the way you'd want someone to inspire your son or daughter. Prime example: Someone asking "So you are a professional fluffer?". Really?

    F--K ME.

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    Anything that's strong enough to keep you from getting cut is too strong in a shop with hazardous equipment. And no, it isn't just the spindle on your Haas that's a hazard. To me, the drill press is the most dangerous machine in the shop ...

    I think the responses to your question are more correct than you are, with that stubborn attitude that gloves are not a hazard and you just want to know which are the best ones. The "best" ones are going to be the ones that don't do anything, so why wear them ?

    This isn't a cleanroom environment. Either man up or face that fact that you're risking body parts, but don't try to have your cake and eat it too.

    btw Doc, I don't wear steel toe boots, for exactly the reason you mentioned

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    Getting to steel boots, if the load is back towards the ankle not the toe the toecap is a nice fulcrum shoving the load onto the nice delicate 30 odd meta-whatever bones, I’ve seen more crushed foots in heavy industry than I can remember, big chains, pipes, round bar etc etc, to be honest I’d rather a broken toes than a broken foot ( if that makes the slightest bit if sense), I got my foot broken, still gives me problems, broke toe, looks lumpy but no trouble so I’m undecided on the merits of steel toecaps, they work if you drop somthing on the top, most things hit behind, big things squeeze the toecap plain through the sole into the ground leaning back and chopping your toes off
    (Yes I have seen that, very messy) I’m still against gloves on anything spinning, the evidence is they make it worse, but saying that clothes in general are a hazard and whilst naked machining may appeal to some I don’t go for it myself, I have witnessed a naked guy driving a fork truck, not pretty, it was a protest to be called back from the shower to offload a truck he should have offloaded before going for a shower, some things cannot be unseen I’m afraid, but you do see some strange things in a steel plant including bricklayers bollock naked inside a furnace
    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by boslab View Post
    ... you do see some strange things in a steel plant including bricklayers bollock naked inside a furnace
    I've always heard Wales was a little different, now I believe it

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    It was indeed a horrible site, the main pipe to a furnace is big, and bricked out, the bricklayers work up in teams 1st course, second course etc, so it can get crowded, seeng 12 naked bricklayers on scaffolding ( I think one was a Sasquatch myself, 6’8” tall long shaggy ginger monster, thing nightmares are composed of, dripping sweat, and to make matters worse I was looking up)
    It was that glint in his eyes and the maniacal teeth missing (U.K. standard)grin, at that moment I knew how sheep feel before being violated, don’t worry son we’re going to eat the bugger after, add to the flavour.
    I wouldn’t go back, call it fear or a kind of premonition of what these lunatics get up to, anyway in the steel industry they call it “hot work” followed by another thing they call “job and finish” you go in for your shift, they offer hot work, say 45 minutes, after the 45 minutes you used to get to go home and got paid a full shift plus half a shift premium, it wasn’t regarded as a pleasant task, wet towel on your head, sometimes just run in lay a brick run out ( not naked btw, heavy furnace clothes, visor, gauntlets, wooden clogs
    The clothes would be burning on the way out, very unpleasant but the working day was short, many would do 2 or 3 goes, that’s 3 days pay, plus 1/12 days premium in hours, the brickeys used to be very well off!
    Don’t think that’s legal now
    Nitrile gloves wouldn’t help
    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by boslab View Post
    ... I think one was a Sasquatch myself, 6’8” tall long shaggy ginger monster, thing nightmares are composed of, dripping sweat, ...
    Are you sure a Irishman didn't sneak onto the crew ?

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    Gloves on open machines most would say not a good idea and big agree there.
    However for cut protection on load/unload on cncs sometimes required by the SWI (Standard Work Instructions).
    So if you did not wear and cut a finger and went to medical for a bandaid when removing chips you got written up. (BTW wooden sticks are also provided for removing chips )
    Do it twice in a year and under the union rules you get unemployed. This is UAW and in the contract.
    Going to medical for a cut finger is bad, worse if you may have dripped a few drops of blood onto the floor or Lord forgive into a coolant tank. BBP....
    Now lets say you run a Cincinnati OD grinder. The wheel does not stop for load/unload and you decide not to wear the required gloves.
    But you get a skin irritation from the coolant. Guess what happens next. Yup, written up and your union rep tries to fight it but fails.

    I hate metal slivers but a stereo microscope and tweezers or scalpel disinfected over gloves in my book.
    Sometimes on a lathe your feeding hand is going to get hit with hot chips so glove on one hand seems like good but one of those cheap magnetic plastic shields might be better.
    Once upon a time snowmobile clutches exposed to all, open neck scarfs not a good plan.
    Rotating parts suck things in way that one would expect and that a lesson learned the hard way.

    Gloves are bad and gloves are good.

    Strangest of all time in my life was first meeting with a high level engineering VP for a big company.
    He said "Show me your hands". I am WTF and floored, he is looking and turning them upside down and staring and I do not know what the heck is going on as this really strange.
    Then he said "I see you have experience".
    Bob

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    I wear out a pair of leather gloves about once a month, usually end up with a hole in one of the fingers, cow skin just is not as tough as it used to be. I use nitrile gloves when working with chemicals, but usually after about 5 minutes it feels like the gloves are full of whatever I'm working with. No gloves when running machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    ... cow skin just is not as tough as it used to be.
    It's all them 5G radio waves messin' with the air ...

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    I talked to a cobbler who also said the same, he reckoned the cows were being fed wrong, instead of thier natural diet they get corn, ground down sheep and pigs protein and massive doses of antibiotics as thier sick most of the time, makes sense that they aren’t well and have thin skin,
    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by boslab View Post
    I talked to a cobbler who also said the same, he reckoned the cows were being fed wrong, instead of thier natural diet they get corn, ground down sheep and pigs protein and massive doses of antibiotics as thier sick most of the time, makes sense that they aren’t well and have thin skin,
    Mark
    I did try out some fencing gloves last month, not the play sword fighting, what the ranchers use with "Bob" wire, those things were so stiff I could barely use my hands, I'm thinking they ran those cows up from central Mexico, flogging them the whole way.

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    I wear heavy gloves to load/unload my CNCs that use coolant and make metal chips. Same gloves unloading cut parts from auto bandsaw. Nothing rotating. I often wear thin Nitrile gloves on the plastic cutting CNC machines. Nothing rotating. I do have a 10 x 24 manual lathe. I get my hands dirty on that machine about 4-5 times a year. Tomorrow I will use that lathe to drill and tap the ends of a few delrin rods. My hands will stay clean as coolant has never been used on that lathe.
    I use a different glove to unload the laser parts, same glove to operate the press brake. I never touch the press brake tooling with bare hands. Keep a can of Boeshield handy at that machine.

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    I’m finding it difficult to get good TIG gloves also, either I’ve gotten weak or the things are all as you say stiff, even if they feel good in the shop within a day or two they’ve always stiff, never had that in the past, generally everything seems sub standard in the gloves department, welding gauntlets made of 3/4 ply, with bolts between your fingers, shoes and boots, they scuff on the toes and what’s under the thin colour looks like cardboard (and probably is), I even tore a belt in half, also did not look leather, some compressed fibre I can’t identify, ripped like fluffy gasket sheet, what is going on I wonder
    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by boslab View Post
    I talked to a cobbler who also said the same, he reckoned the cows were being fed wrong, instead of thier natural diet they get corn, ground down sheep and pigs protein and massive doses of antibiotics as thier sick most of the time, makes sense that they aren’t well and have thin skin,
    Mark
    Or it could be the tanning process has
    gone green"...:
    What Is Chrome Tanning?

    Or that the leather is diced up into thinner pieces to get more per hide.

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    I picked up a pair of pigskin gloves at HF on one of the sales. I think they were around $3.50 a pair. I figured they would last about a week doing firewood, like all the other gloves I have tried. I cut, split and stacked over 6 cords of wood with them ad they are just starting to show some wear thru in the fingertips. So I bought another pair for when these wear out, as the usual thing is what you like is discontinued when you need it again. They are still on the nail waiting to be worn. My Dad seames to always wear out the thumb an for finger on his right glove, his neighbor is a lefty and does the same on his left glove. So they have been swaping gloves when the fingers just start to show wear through. The two old guys have it figured out after living thru the depression an WW2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boslab View Post
    It was indeed a horrible site, the main pipe to a furnace is big, and bricked out, the bricklayers work up in teams 1st course, second course etc, so it can get crowded, seeng 12 naked bricklayers on scaffolding ( I think one was a Sasquatch myself, 6’8” tall long shaggy ginger monster, thing nightmares are composed of, dripping sweat, and to make matters worse I was looking up)
    It was that glint in his eyes and the maniacal teeth missing (U.K. standard)grin, at that moment I knew how sheep feel before being violated, don’t worry son we’re going to eat the bugger after, add to the flavour.
    I wouldn’t go back, call it fear or a kind of premonition of what these lunatics get up to, anyway in the steel industry they call it “hot work” followed by another thing they call “job and finish” you go in for your shift, they offer hot work, say 45 minutes, after the 45 minutes you used to get to go home and got paid a full shift plus half a shift premium, it wasn’t regarded as a pleasant task, wet towel on your head, sometimes just run in lay a brick run out ( not naked btw, heavy furnace clothes, visor, gauntlets, wooden clogs
    The clothes would be burning on the way out, very unpleasant but the working day was short, many would do 2 or 3 goes, that’s 3 days pay, plus 1/12 days premium in hours, the brickeys used to be very well off!
    Don’t think that’s legal now
    Nitrile gloves wouldn’t help
    Mark
    Makes my time as an apprentice climbing into the combustion space of a 500 megawatt boiler between burner firing tests sound like a walk in the park!

    George B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I think the responses to your question are more correct than you are, with that stubborn attitude that gloves are not a hazard and you just want to know which are the best ones.
    Some of the responses are good. Others are just coming from immature anal orifices.

    This is about gloves for material handling. This NOT about intentionally or unintentionally stopping a rotating spindle with your hands.

    I just spent a week machining and welding-up a bunch of mild steel tubing and flat bar. I used leather gloves to handle the material, load and unload the machines. The gloves came off for anything having to do with the machine other than clamping/unclamping. For example, loading an unloading tools, probing, etc. No gloves. After a week of using these gloves I don't want to even think about what my hands would have looked like from handling that material. The gloves took a real beating. Of course, different gloves went on for welding, but that's a different matter.

    It was a simple question really: When you do use gloves, what works best for you?

    This is my conclusion after reading some of the constructive comments here, looking around the net and from personal experience:


    If you are handling stuff that will cut you or tear-up your hands, leather gloves seem to work very well. You have to make sure they are not too smooth and slippery though so you can have a reasonable grip. Rubber coating gloves might not be the best idea (read on).

    If it is about protection from chemicals (coolant, etc.), nitrile or similar disposables work well. Just be careful about spinning machinery, these gloves can grab just as well as leather gloves and pull your hand into the equipment.

    Don't get anywhere near anything spinning, even slowly. If they grab, your hand, arm and entire body could very well go into the machine (don't assume they will break).

    The other warning I would provide is related to weight and grip or friction.

    There are gloves (leather or rubberized) that offer different levels of grip. I was handling a 150 lb plate of steel. I used gloves because the edges would certainly cut-up my hands. The problem you can very easily run into is that the gloves might grip very well and provided little slip (the case of rubberized gloves). The problem is that they don't stick to your hand as much as they might grip the material. This means the glove won't slip on the material but your hand might slip inside of them. While handling something heavy your hand could very well slip out of the glove and you are dropping a 150 lbs of steel on your feet (or whatever).

    This is a tough call. I guess you have to know your gloves. I have a bunch of them. Some fit very tightly and have wrist velcro straps. Others are far looser.

    When I lift weights for strength training I don't use any gloves or straps at all. Once you get up to heavier weights (say, 250 lb range) not only do you start to encounter potentially dangerous low/unpredictable grip issues, but you also have the potential for the opposite problem. If you are handling really heavy weights, need to let go and the glove or strap somehow fails to allow you to do so (or gets caught in some way for some strange reason) you could be in for trouble and a trip to the hospital. A simple example would be lifting 120 lb dumbels of the kind that have stacked bolted-on plates (rather than one piece rubberized). If, for any reason, the glove or strap gets caught on the hardware this could be very dangerous.

    Going back to metal working. I think the bottom line for material handling might be that if you are handling really heavy items you just don't use your hands. You use tools. A hoist, whatever. Not sure what "really heavy" might be here. Depending on ergonomics I feel comfortable in the 80 to 100 lb range, with 150 being an extreme case I would likely avoid. In weight lifting the center of the mass you are lifting can be positioned ideally with respect to your body. Not so when lifting real materials around machinery, so "heavy weight" isn't a number but rather a combination of factors, with relative safety being one of the variables at play, particularly for something that must be done multiple times per day.

    So, yeah, I don't think there's a straight-forward answer to using gloves in the shop. The simple case is the obvious one: Never around rotating hardware. From there, it's a range and it depends on what you are doing.

    One thing I found interesting is that some companies seem to have requirements for workers to wear gloves for some tasks because without them there could be too many trips to medical. The other one was the idea of blood in the coolant. So...is this considered a biohazard and you have to empty the coolant tank into a barrel for HAZMAT disposal? I just don't live in that world, so I don't know.

    Pretty amazing I was able to deliver some useful info without calling anyone a "fluffer". Imagine that.


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