Good forum(s) for learning about automotive machine work? - Page 6
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  1. #101
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    what do you think about a copper coat instead of aluminum?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    what do you think about a copper coat instead of aluminum?
    What is this for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guest View Post
    I think there are a fraction of automotive machine shops that do custom work compared to what there used to be. I think affordable crate motors and large scale re-builders put a lot of them out of business
    Even the large-scale rebuilders are competing in a dying market. Modern engines with computer management will run long after the car itself is worn out, then they just go to the shredder. Except for the few V8s that have some application to hot rods and race cars—but if they are electronically managed they are much less amenable to that. Not like the simpler days of distributor ignition and carburetors—points to file, sure, but no chip codes requiring illegal hacking...

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  5. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowmotion View Post
    "Guys I have a question, as a starting point how do you test the block is 'true' and everything lines up?"

    Fact is, very few shops can. I'd say 1 in 10 have a 4 axis CNC machine which can locate the factory datum and measure from there. All other boring machines simply follow what's already there. There are some bolt on fixtures which help a little, but it's not remotely the same. The average machinist would be shocked to see how far off lifter bores are.
    BTW, I sent you a PM which should help in your quest for knowledge on engine machining.
    Don't you use a Fadal for block machining?

    I think I'd be more in the Makino HMC realm if I wanted to make a thou +/- claims over the work envelope of a V8 engine block.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    Don't you use a Fadal for block machining?

    I think I'd be more in the Makino HMC realm if I wanted to make a thou +/- claims over the work envelope of a V8 engine block.
    No, I have a VM20 Milltronics with a Nikken 4th axis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    Even the large-scale rebuilders are competing in a dying market. Modern engines with computer management will run long after the car itself is worn out, then they just go to the shredder. Except for the few V8s that have some application to hot rods and race cars—but if they are electronically managed they are much less amenable to that. Not like the simpler days of distributor ignition and carburetors—points to file, sure, but no chip codes requiring illegal hacking...
    I place the blame here firmly on Toyota.
    There used to be an engine rebuild shop on every corner, now good luck finding one.
    80,000 miles used to mean worn out and leaving a smoke trail.
    Then someone came in from overseas, quality became a big issue so now 250,000 miles plus is an expected norm.
    Tolerances on even the cheapest production engines now where unthinkable and impossible in the 70s.

    Old terms that brings a smile to my face any time I hear is "break in" or "ring seating". Things have changed so much.
    In the 80s I asked known guy how to break in a NHRA motor.
    He told me"The first pass at three quarter throttle to make sure the rods do come through the block, outside of that you built it right or you built it wrong."
    Now a modern car engine never even gets started until the car around it is fully built and the drive to they car hauler.
    It had darn sure pass the EPA checks at first fire.

    I love the heck out of the corner machine shop or the specialty guys who we have some here but it is not as easy as it would seem.
    For sure one can get away with murder sometimes but that might not apply in all cases.
    Bob

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  9. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by dantm View Post
    What is this for?
    ss was talking about applying aluminum to the gasket for better sealing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    ss was talking about applying aluminum to the gasket for better sealing.
    Neither. I heard that as a kid and it always seemed like bullshit to me. Fast forward 50 years and we seal steam turbines at 3500 psi, no gasket, with linseed oil. Those old paints were linseed oil based. The aluminum didn't do anything, it was the linseed oil. Modern paints are mostly water based. You can buy linseed oil by itself or there is a product called Tite Seal intended for similar applications.

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  12. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    ss was talking about applying aluminum to the gasket for better sealing.
    So the question is spray on aluminum type paint vs the copper spray on for head gaskets in auto engines?
    Bob

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    Tdmidget is on to something I think , the can of paint that I was shown with was pretty damn old when I was an apprentice, that was in the early 2000's. Maybe it was something other than the Aluminum particulate, either way it worked. It was for an old Continental Y163 or Y112, I tried everything to get that head gasket to seal, different head bolt torques, different gaskets, different surface finishes. It was constantly the same issue, solve one point of leak and another developed. That is when the NOS gentleman, who taught me the most, told me to grab a specific can of spray paint that was covered in dust with a faded label from the back of the shelf. He told me never to use the paint for anything other than flathead motor head gaskets, we sprayed a nice layer on the block and a layer on the head. Voila, no more leaks after assembly. WARNING: this was a application specific use, I would never suggest this for anything else. Definitely not a substitute for proper gasket surface prep. Sorry OP, I know it is a little off topic but I thought it would be relevant. Maybe it was all the extra lead additives and CFC's added to the paint before it was potted...kidding of course

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    What's your point?

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    if the product is available it is apparently being used.
    Last edited by dian; 06-15-2021 at 09:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    if the product is aveilable it is apparently being used.

    Fortunes are made in snake oil markets. If that shit was better than linseed oil we'd be using it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    He told me"The first pass at three quarter throttle to make sure the rods do come through the block, outside of that you built it right or you built it wrong."
    reminds me of when i was young and in the dealership. old mechanic, "snooks", who knew my dad from years back honked the horn and said come along for a test ride. he took this cadillac eldo up to about 60mph and through it into reverse. after i got myself back in the seat he said if its gonna break it'll break now. after that he stopped and picked up a couple beers. i did lots of trans over the years but i didn't buy into his theory plus drinking on the job don't work for me

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    i have nothing agains linseed oil. i use it for other application. however on a head gasket thermal decomposition and solubility comes to mind. boiling point of the oil is around 300°c but no idea how stable it is after it has reacted.

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    OP: You asked about boring and honing the cylinders. If you look at how much you are wanting to take out of the cylinders, you would realize that it makes no sense to bore this block. By the time you leave X to hone out, that leaves you only a few thou to bore out. You don't put a block in a boring bar to take a few thou out. Just put the block in the honing machine and use roughing stones to take it out to the size where you want to hone from. This is the easiest part of the rebuild. Nothing trick, nothing fancy, requires no parts. The hone doesn't know if this is a $5 SBC or a $50,000 exotic. It will come out perfect if the operator has a brain.

    And on the subject of line bore/line hone, if the diameters are in spec and the alignment is good don't do anything. Don't make this job harder than it has to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    ...
    Tolerances on even the cheapest production engines now where unthinkable and impossible in the 70s.
    ...
    One of the biggest factors in this, is the advances in cutting tool technology over the intervening years.

    Linseed oil BTW does polymerize into a solid.

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    Another thing to think about is the compression ration of the original engine and whether the new pistons should have less dome to lower the CR to deal with todays crappy gas. You could likely get much higher octane when that engine was built, it may not be happy on todays version of high-test. Otherwise may need to find a source of racing fuel at $15/gallon...

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    This thread has turned into pure gold.

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