Good toolroom lathe

Hi all,

We've been looking for a good solid engine lathe, about 14"x 40" in size to replace our POS Nardini. We had an older Clausing that was great, but management at the time decided to part with that one. Looking at what is out there, I see a lot of tiawan/chinese lathes on the market Southbend, Kent, ETC. What Manufacturer makes a really solid lathe about that size?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

Guess you might consider a Standard Modern.

Standard Modern Lathe Model 144, 14" Swing - SM-144 - Penn Tool Co., Inc About $16K

kent that size lower price but I think the SM better and worth the extra bucks. About $11k
eBay - Page Not Found

likely SM will have parts ASAP when/if you need them

chappyd said:

Hi all,

We've been looking for a good solid engine lathe, about 14"x 40" in size to replace our POS Nardini. We had an older Clausing that was great, but management at the time decided to part with that one. Looking at what is out there, I see a lot of tiawan/chinese lathes on the market Southbend, Kent, ETC. What Manufacturer makes a really solid lathe about that size?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

Click to expand...

South Korea's Hwacheon that at least STARTED OUT AS a license-built clone of Japan's well regarded Mori Seiki. Not a "perfect" machine, either of those, but predictably GOOD ones that have stood the test of time. Also sold under a couple of other names as have also held a decent reputation.

Long and short of it is that anyone else who was/is really good at machine-tools moved-on to CNC, and a long time ago, already. Look under a Cazeneuve "Optica", find the same body as their manual HBX-360-BC with sophisticated electronics now extending the capability of former uber-complex mechanicals.

Same old hoor, new lipstick, doesn't begin to cover how much more capable the result than the former "all manual". Cazeneuve have factory-made videos on that, more than one language. Other makers may have as well.

Among those "others"? - Okuma, but not-only - several makers have "teach in" hybrid assisted manual/CNC.

If the money can be found? Those several "hybrids" would be the ONLY ones on MY "shortlist" to dig more deeply into and choose from.

The designs of 1939 or 1949 lost ground a long time ago to at least "creeping" improvements, if not also revolutionary ones.

If the money is NOT to be had?

Well. it wasn't. Not "justifiably" anyway. Soooo my HBX-360-BC was at least one of those found to be worthy of building all that new CNC-ish stuff on top of. Parts may be dear, but at least they still exist.

Oh, BTW? Nardini is not necessarily a "POS".

Among other things, they built the Cazeneuve HBX lathes for the LATAM market, and under the Nardini badging.

Whatever else Nardini is or was, chopped liver they were never. "All wore out and beat to s**t" can happen to anybody. DAMHIKT.

The older kids tell me it can even happen to machinery, brand immaterial. too!

Go figure..

First, you need to define "Tool room Lathe". That definition is all over the place. I would recommend the new 14 x 40 LeBlond It has all the bells and whistles and has a D1-6 spindle. I am not certain but I believe it is made in Asia, but it is a high end machine.

The Whacheon/Webb/Mori Seiki machines are pretty well built. The Leblond machines are pretty good and the folks at Leblond are very helpful when you need parts or have a problem. The Taiwanese Victor/Fortune machines are also fairly well liked.

My only complaint with this otherwise excellent LeBlond lathe is that it has no spindle brake, but then again, no lathe in this size group has a spindle brake.

MARK07747 said:

The Whacheon/Webb/Mori Seiki machines are pretty well built. The Leblond machines are pretty good and the folks at Leblond are very helpful when you need parts or have a problem. The Taiwanese Victor/Fortune machines are also fairly well liked.

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+1 I'd give the first lot at least an "A-minus" if not an "A", and the second lot a solid "B".

The problem with Taiwanese machine-tools AND even basic tooling, such as collets, chucks and rotabs?

FAR, FAR too many more "look alikes", some where the actual factory is in PRC, than "work alikes" that come out of the crate with all tolerances "in spec" and built to remain in-spec. Worse, it changes as the players change or Purchase Orders are written.

That makes it a greater dice-roll than the less commercially-agile South Koreans. Some of Taiwan's merchants could give juggling lessons to Europe's most famous and enduring-successful of Jewish, French, Swiss, or Italian family dominated banks, merchant houses, and multi-generational trading empires, they are that dynamic. They HAD to be, what with the start they had and what followed-on.

And opportunistic, of course.

I don't think I know even ONE who does not also have dual or MORE citizenship, either. Caveat emptor. Not a lot of dummies in that lot. Survive, prevail, and prosper, rather.

20CW

steve-l said:

My only complaint with this otherwise excellent LeBlond lathe is that it has no spindle brake, but then again, no lathe in this size group has a spindle brake.

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I don't know the exact size or year offhand, but our shop has a Leblond with a spindle brake. It is the only one with it, even comparing to the other 2 Leblonds we have.

It is a Leblond Regal with the servo shift. It is pretty old though so I don't know how it compares to the newer machines.

Thanks for the suggestions. Just sent a RFQ to LeBlond. Our Nardini Lathe is nothing special. Things keep breaking and I can't find anyone to service it our a source for parts.

chappyd said:

Thanks for the suggestions. Just sent a RFQ to LeBlond. Our Nardini Lathe is nothing special. Things keep breaking and I can't find anyone to service it our a source for parts.

Click to expand...

I thimk Pen tool handles most/many of the lathes mentioned.
LeBLOND Geared Head 16 Speed Precision Lathe 14" x 4" - Penn Tool Co., Inc

Leblond cast iron base
Leblond=5hp SM has 3 hp
weigh oner 3000 leblond, under 2000 the SM
both SM and leblond parts are marketed by Leblond.
Agree it looks like a very good machine
I have used the old iron Leblonds and the y were hard to beat.

you might start a thread " any problems/bosing on the leblond LTD lathes?

nerdyrcdriver said:

I don't know the exact size or year offhand, but our shop has a Leblond with a spindle brake. It is the only one with it, even comparing to the other 2 Leblonds we have.

It is a Leblond Regal with the servo shift. It is pretty old though so I don't know how it compares to the newer machines.

Click to expand...

The spindle brake is an integral part of the servo-shift mechanism.

chappyd said:

Thanks for the suggestions. Just sent a RFQ to LeBlond. Our Nardini Lathe is nothing special. Things keep breaking and I can't find anyone to service it our a source for parts.

Click to expand...

That is a feature they must share with a hundred OTHER lathes, US and otherwise, by this stage of history.

That CAN include, BTW, present-production Taiwanese brandings.

Not a lot wrong with picking a known-reliable support and parts source FIRST, then seeing what machine-tools they support.

Last time I looked, "LeBlond" was a Makino property, yah? The important part is that at least they are "still here", whether they can assist with a 1947 "Heavy Duty" or not.

If we were trying to deliver hogs, chickens, dog-food, frozen foods, or bum-fodder off the back of "a couple of tubes, and a thousand cubes of 1948 Peterbilt"?

World would rank us daft.

Yet here we are with machine-tools as have earned a sleep, reluctant to move-on?

"Good on yah" for trying!

I would seriously consider a Haas TL-1 or equivalent tool room CNC lathe. I have recently trained up on one using conversational programming so far and it's just so much better and faster than doing things manually. And that includes the sort of one-off and maintenance work you would traditionally do on a manual. It's also really accurate, and in particular it's fast to make a part with good (~0.001") accuracy. Ours has a good bison three jaw and it centers to a thousandth consistently. You get enough tool holders to have a pre-set tool for the main lathe operations, turning, boring, threading and parting, and off you go. There is a reason everything has gone to CNC and yes the machine is more expensive but it's not dramatically more expensive than a manual.

To the OP, feel free to expand on the application but I am 95% certain the answer will be CNC is a great choice.

You might look at the RML-1440/1640, they are made by Sun Master (although there are other alias), they are made in Taiwan, very nicely made. I recently did a VFD system install on an RML-1640 (Acra 1600TE), very impressed with it, he does a lot of one off fabrication and it has worked very well for him. The same machine is sold under various names/brands like Kent, parts should be available for the near future as the model has been in production for many years. Support is vendor based, so something to consider. The RKL-1440 looks to be the same machine as the RML-1440 with a different paint job. Also might consider a 1640 vs. 1440 as the price difference is around 6%. You can also get these with a factory installed VFD (1660TVS,RML-1440VT). Also worth checking out is the Clausing/Colchester 15"VS.

mksj said:

You might look at the RML-1440/1640, they are made by Sun Master (although there are other alias), they are made in Taiwan, very nicely made. I recently did a VFD system install on an RML-1640 (Acra 1600TE), very impressed with it, he does a lot of one off fabrication and it has worked very well for him. The same machine is sold under various names/brands like Kent, parts should be available for the near future as the model has been in production for many years. Support is vendor based, so something to consider. The RKL-1440 looks to be the same machine as the RML-1440 with a different paint job. Also might consider a 1640 vs. 1440 as the price difference is around 6%. You can also get these with a factory installed VFD (1660TVS,RML-1440VT). Also worth checking out is the Clausing/Colchester 15"VS.

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That ain't a BAD list. But as with a Standard Modern, these are repair shop and odds and sods short run production light engine lathes built to an value-for-modest-money price-point.

I'd not class any of those as "toolroom". Basic "get you by", rather.

Honest enough. But better can still be had, and better can still justify the extra spend over not a very long time if you actually USE these goods. Fully-burdened labour is dear, and "better" usually needs a tad less OF it.