hanging a wall-sculpture with security hardware

j c · Dec 4, 2018

I'm using "security hardware" that normally consists of two sliding brackets on the top and a pin on the bottom that turns to secure paintings and things to walls. I have an application where I would like to use 3 of the pins to hang an aluminum flat sculpture to the wall instead of using the 2 sliding brackets and pin. The reason for the 3 pins is that it's an open sculpture and the pins are more minimal looking.

Someone told me that it can't be done since the pins are not load-bearing. However, the pin screws are bigger than the bracket screws, and the sculpture only weighs about 40 lbs. Structurally, if there is a screw with a bracket on the wall, or the same screw with no bracket, and there is a radial(?) force pulling down on the screw, isn't it just about the same in terms of "load-bearing"?

In other words, a #6 screw in a plastic plug in drywall is going to hold about the same amount of weight as a #6 screw in a plastic plug - with a bracket - in drywall correct?

I realize that the bracket spreads the load a bit on the wall but I think that the pull-out strength is going to be about the same. Would you agree or disagree?

j c · Dec 4, 2018

I'm adding to this question because having thought about it more, wouldn't a force pulling down on a bracket held to the wall with one screw even be less that that same screw without the bracket? It seems like the bracket would act as a lever and possibly even aid at pulling out the screw rather than help it stay in. Does that make any sense, or does the distribution of weight against the wall from the bracket help the screw stay in?

Rudd · Dec 4, 2018

https://photos.francisfrith.com/frith/misterton-the-canal-and-packet-inn-1964_m235049.jpg

Bill D · Dec 4, 2018

You say*security. is this anti theft or anti sesmic security?

litlerob1 · Dec 5, 2018

I'm still trying to figure out how to get the shredded carrots in the Jell-O. People around here are not helpful.

R

j c · Dec 5, 2018

Thanks for all these insightful comments. :sulk:

Pathogen · Dec 5, 2018

I would suggest using an electrical box. They are rated for hanging fixtures. If they are mounted per instructions. For really heavy use, get a ceiling fan box. You can look up the mounting and support information on any UL listed electrical equipment. Then you can use cool covers on the boxes and it can blend into the wall.

doug925 · Dec 5, 2018

Could you not use a French Cleat? (something like this)

https://www.amazon.com/Hangman-Heav...ocphy=9027718&hvtargid=pla-313585617350&psc=1

You can even section the part into smaller lengths, and use multiple shorter lengths.

I am assuming you are asking your question based on static load, not for seismic or anti-theft purposes.

If the latter, then never mind....

HuFlungDung · Dec 5, 2018

litlerob1 said:
I'm still trying to figure out how to get the shredded carrots in the Jell-O. People around here are not helpful.

R

I had trouble with this, too, because of having to deal with all sorts of lengths and diameter of carrots. And the thing is, the grater wheel is a tapered cone, so not knowing exactly where the carrot hits the cone makes it nearly impossible to determine exactly how many turns of the crank it takes to grind a carrot: not enough turns and you end up with whole chunks of carrots in the jello.

Finally, I made an Excel spreadsheet and saved all the trials I had made with various carrots over the years. Works for me, should work for anyone

litlerob1 · Dec 5, 2018

HuFlungDung said:
Finally, I made an Excel spreadsheet and saved all the trials I had made with various carrots over the years. Works for me, should work for anyone

Exactly!! I think the OP should do that, to figure out what his problem is.

Wait....how on Earth would Excel even help? What variables and equations would you need the software to figure out? The percentage of failure? That makes no Gadamned sense at all!!!!

Yan Wo · Dec 5, 2018

litlerob1 said:
I'm still trying to figure out how to get the shredded carrots in the Jell-O. People around here are not helpful.

R

Back story for those not familiar with Utah traditions:

Any social event where food is served must include at least one large tray of orange jello filled with shredded carrots. It's a Utah law, I believe. In an emergency, green jello may be substituted, but the shredded carrots are mandatory.

litlerob1 · Dec 5, 2018

Yan Wo said:
Back story for those not familiar with Utah traditions:

Any social event where food is served must include at least one large tray of orange jello filled with shredded carrots. It's a Utah law, I believe. In an emergency, green jello may be substituted, but the shredded carrots are mandatory.

Only as it applies to Manufacturing, right?

doug925 · Dec 6, 2018

litlerob1 said:
Exactly!! I think the OP should do that, to figure out what his problem is. Wait....how on Earth would Excel even help? What variables and equations would you need the software to figure out? The percentage of failure? That makes no Gadamned sense at all!!!!

I don't know, but I bet a certain member

HAS a spreadsheet to cover this EXACT problem.

litlerob1 · Dec 6, 2018

doug925 said:
I don't know, but I bet a certain member HAS a spreadsheet to cover this EXACT problem.

Maybe that would keep him busy for a few days and off the Net. How many Carrot failures can you expect with a bushel?

R

j c · Dec 11, 2018

Just security in terms of it not falling - so it stays on the wall.

j c · Dec 11, 2018

Thanks a lot doug925, that's a really good idea to cut the cleat into sections. That could work except that it could slide side to side. I also thought of an eye-hole hanger which is very minimal and might work, it's just tough to line up more than one of those, making the install more difficult. Thanks again though.

Bill D · Dec 11, 2018

I think this is the sculptors fault. Why did they not make any provision for it to be displayed. That kind of implies they did not think it was worth selling or looking at.
Bill D.

Chip Chester · Dec 12, 2018

One could stuff the hole with the shredded carrots, thereby adding a biodegradable element to the installation in lieu of adding to the problem of plastics in the environment.

Or, you could get the proper size Molly bolt, install/expand them with their supplied machine screws, then remove those and use the screws supplied with the brackets. Obviously, get the right size Mollys for the bracket screws... Or shim with your apparent abundance carrot shreddings.

magneticanomaly · Dec 12, 2018

As to your question about relative load capacities of screw alone versus screw with bracket, if the screw pre-loads the bracket against the drywall surface, then friction between the bracket and the wall surface adds to the shear strength of the screw alone. Depending on the direction of the load and dimensions and orientation of the bracket, pull-out strength may be more or less.

IMO there is no safe way to hang 40 lb from dry-wall. Attach a board across two or more wall-studs with wood or lag screws, then hang your sculpture from the board. Molly bolts (Molly (fastener) - Wikipedia) would be better than what you have, but not enough better.

Miguels244 · Dec 12, 2018

Yan Wo said:
Back story for those not familiar with Utah traditions:

Any social event where food is served must include at least one large tray of orange jello filled with shredded carrots. It's a Utah law, I believe. In an emergency, green jello may be substituted, but the shredded carrots are mandatory.

And CoolWhip.

hanging a wall-sculpture with security hardware

Aluminum

Aluminum

Stainless

Attachments

Diamond

Diamond

Aluminum

Hot Rolled

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

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Titanium

Diamond

Aluminum

Aluminum

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

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