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  1. #41
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    I have been on the phone with online metals today because the bar they sent me is not annealed; actually it is about as hard as it gets. This is the 2nd time I've been screwed over. The first time was caused by their poor communication that the ID of their pipe was actually bigger, causing the first depositor nozzles to be scrapped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eccentroid View Post
    I have been on the phone with online metals today because the bar they sent me is not annealed; actually it is about as hard as it gets. This is the 2nd time I've been screwed over. The first time was caused by their poor communication that the ID of their pipe was actually bigger, causing the first depositor nozzles to be scrapped.
    And how hard is it??? Should be in the mid 30's on the C-scale when you get it.

    And they shouldn't call it annealed, yes, its condition 'A' but that doesn't mean annealed. Its 'solution treated',
    you couldn't buy Annealed 17-4 if you tried. I know a lot of people use the terms interchangably, and we almost
    all know what it means, but its just one of those pet peeves I have.. Like spelling doughnut as dOnut.

    And if it did come already heat treated, be thankful, its easier to machine that way...

    How did you determine that it was already 'hardened'??? The weird thing is if you take it to an H1150
    there is a good chance it will actually get softer.


    I've also gotten burned on the tubing thing.. You need to know what the actual spec is.. Tubing is
    based on the OD, and then by wall thickness, and the wall thickness is usually toleranced as ±10%...
    So 3/4" with a .120 wall *should* have an ID of .510 and it ALWAYS around .525... They really should
    fix that on their website.

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    The mill test report says it's Rockwell 37. They are calling this annealed.

    I can't afford a real hardness tester, but my Rockwell 40 file is getting dulled by this 17-4 bar.

    At the end of the day, I'd write this off as another example of poor communication by Onlinemetals. They also didn't offer to replace the bar so they don't care about the customer either. Sorry to complain; I'm usually so easy going.

    Right now, I'm looking at other vendors that actually list important specs on their website. I don't have time to play the guessing game of asking for MTRs and challenging their definition of annealed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eccentroid View Post
    The mill test report says it's Rockwell 37. They are calling this annealed.

    I can't afford a real hardness tester, but my Rockwell 40 file is getting dulled by this 17-4 bar.

    At the end of the day, I'd write this off as another example of poor communication by Onlinemetals. They also didn't offer to replace the bar so they don't care about the customer either. Sorry to complain; I'm usually so easy going.

    Right now, I'm looking at other vendors that actually list important specs on their website. I don't have time to play the guessing game of asking for MTRs and challenging their definition of annealed.
    That is what you are going to get from ANY supplier.. I just tossed a piece of 1" round "annealed"(solution treated)
    onto the tester and I got a 36C.. The only way you can get it softer is buying already heat treated to an H1150, and
    will only be softer by a point or 2..

    I think you expectations are off... That is what 17-4 is and that is how it comes, from ALL suppliers.. That
    IS what is considered "annealed"..

    What are you doing with it? And are you going to heat treat it afterwards???

    I'm going to suggest that you ignore the fact that its pretty hard, and try actually cutting it..
    Its one of those materials that cuts VERY WELL... In the "annealed" condition it has some sticky
    stainless properties, probably only about half as bad as 304, its really not that bad, I think you
    will be pleasantly surprised with how it cuts..

    As stated earlier in the thread, it cuts even better when heat treated.. It basically LOSES all its
    "stainless" cutting properties, and becomes almost exactly like hardened 4140 or 4xx0.. Even at an
    H900 which is in the high 40's, and I've seen it as high as a 51C, it cuts pretty darn nice..

    Don't be afraid of the hardness.. Give it a chance and it will become your favorite stainless to work with..

    Its one of my favorite materials... If it can't be made out of Delrin, it should be made from 2000 or 7000
    series aluminum.. If it needs 'more', then 303.. If the part needs 'still more' then it should be made from
    17-4... As far as I'm concerned, from a machinist perspective, those are the only necessary materials that the
    world needs...

    Give it a shot, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

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    Thanks for sharing your experience. I found it so easy machining 17-4 last time on my manual lathe that I was shocked to see it trashing new carbide cutters on my CNC mill. I've been machining stainless since 1996 so it's not due to inexperience.

    I am probably going to go with 416 stainless because I just learned that it is resistant to acids used in this application. My CAM software is telling me that each part will machine in 11 minutes instead of 1hr 7min.

    I am the business owner and I'm trying not to lose money on cutters or bill the customer too much because the operation takes a while.

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    Hey Y'all,

    I've been turning and threading the ends of some 17-4 PH H1150 round rod to make small parts that are 5/16" in diameter and about 2 1/2" long. My only gripe is that my local vendors sell the H1150 in 1/4" and 3/8" and what I really want is 5/16". Based on what I've read here and elsewhere it appears that I could just get some 5/16" diameter 17-4 PH "Condition A" rods, cut them into a bunch of part slugs, and heat treat them in an oven to get it to H1150. I don't (yet) have and oven and I've never heat treated anything in my life. Here are the questions that I have:

    1. Is there an easy-to-use oven that can land in Huntington Beach, CA for under $2,000?
    2. What kind of shelves and racks are needed inside the oven to treat dozens of small parts at a time?
    3. Does one have to make sure that the parts don't touch inside the oven?
    4. Should I consider an oven that can do more than just treat parts under 1,200 degrees?

    Thanks in Advance,

    CC

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrischaput View Post
    Hey Y'all,

    I've been turning and threading the ends of some 17-4 PH H1150 round rod to make small parts that are 5/16" in diameter and about 2 1/2" long. My only gripe is that my local vendors sell the H1150 in 1/4" and 3/8" and what I really want is 5/16". Based on what I've read here and elsewhere it appears that I could just get some 5/16" diameter 17-4 PH "Condition A" rods, cut them into a bunch of part slugs, and heat treat them in an oven to get it to H1150. I don't (yet) have and oven and I've never heat treated anything in my life. Here are the questions that I have:

    1. Is there an easy-to-use oven that can land in Huntington Beach, CA for under $2,000?
    2. What kind of shelves and racks are needed inside the oven to treat dozens of small parts at a time?
    3. Does one have to make sure that the parts don't touch inside the oven?
    4. Should I consider an oven that can do more than just treat parts under 1,200 degrees?

    Thanks in Advance,

    CC
    The short answer, no. Maybe if you find something used but either way it's going to be fairly large and require a good amount of power.

    Basically you can just pile them in or get some steel racks, probably need to be shop made.

    A heat treat oven can be used for multiple things especially with good temperature controls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    That is what you are going to get from ANY supplier.. I just tossed a piece of 1" round "annealed"(solution treated)
    onto the tester and I got a 36C.. The only way you can get it softer is buying already heat treated to an H1150, and
    will only be softer by a point or 2..

    I think you expectations are off... That is what 17-4 is and that is how it comes, from ALL suppliers.. That
    IS what is considered "annealed"..

    What are you doing with it? And are you going to heat treat it afterwards???

    I'm going to suggest that you ignore the fact that its pretty hard, and try actually cutting it..
    Its one of those materials that cuts VERY WELL... In the "annealed" condition it has some sticky
    stainless properties, probably only about half as bad as 304, its really not that bad, I think you
    will be pleasantly surprised with how it cuts..

    As stated earlier in the thread, it cuts even better when heat treated.. It basically LOSES all its
    "stainless" cutting properties, and becomes almost exactly like hardened 4140 or 4xx0.. Even at an
    H900 which is in the high 40's, and I've seen it as high as a 51C, it cuts pretty darn nice..

    Don't be afraid of the hardness.. Give it a chance and it will become your favorite stainless to work with..

    Its one of my favorite materials... If it can't be made out of Delrin, it should be made from 2000 or 7000
    series aluminum.. If it needs 'more', then 303.. If the part needs 'still more' then it should be made from
    17-4... As far as I'm concerned, from a machinist perspective, those are the only necessary materials that the
    world needs...

    Give it a shot, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
    Dang Bob, no love for 4140ht?

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    The short answer, no. Maybe if you find something used but either way it's going to be fairly large and require a good amount of power.

    Basically you can just pile them in or get some steel racks, probably need to be shop made.

    A heat treat oven can be used for multiple things especially with good temperature controls.
    Someone had mentioned Cress heat treat furnaces and I checked and found the Model C-601 at Ajax Industries for $1,645 plus $234 shipping totaling $1,879. It has a chamber that is 8.5" x 10" x 6.5" tall. It can maintain 1800° F continuously. Would that do the trick?

    ---

    Uses: These models are designed for those users who require automatic temperature controlled furnaces from 250° F to 2000° F (Model C-601) or up to 2250° F (Model C401H)
    At A Low Cost: An ideal unit for many of the small jobs found in Tool rooms, Production Shops or Laboratory.

    Temperature Control: Auto tuning microprocessor-based controller.

    Elements: C-601 chrome nickel wire. C401H-high temperature iron-aluminum wire.

    Wiring: furnace is completely wired and equipped with cord ready to plug into a 115 volt outlet. control, relay and wiring connections are enclosed on the base.

    General construction: Furnace case of sheet steel is assembled by use of electrical welding and sheet metal screws. The spring counter-balance door rises vertically on lever arrangement keeping the hot face away from operator. The C401H walls and door are constructed of high quality insulating brick backed by 1800° F block insulation. Furnace is finished in heat resistant hammer tone gray.

    Safety switch: These models come equipped with a door safety switch. when door is opened, power is disconnected from the heating elements.

  11. #50
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    I don't see why it wouldn't work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrischaput View Post
    Hey Y'all,

    I've been turning and threading the ends of some 17-4 PH H1150 round rod to make small parts that are 5/16" in diameter and about 2 1/2" long. My only gripe is that my local vendors sell the H1150 in 1/4" and 3/8" and what I really want is 5/16". Based on what I've read here and elsewhere it appears that I could just get some 5/16" diameter 17-4 PH "Condition A" rods, cut them into a bunch of part slugs, and heat treat them in an oven to get it to H1150. I don't (yet) have and oven and I've never heat treated anything in my life. Here are the questions that I have:

    1. Is there an easy-to-use oven that can land in Huntington Beach, CA for under $2,000?
    2. What kind of shelves and racks are needed inside the oven to treat dozens of small parts at a time?
    3. Does one have to make sure that the parts don't touch inside the oven?
    4. Should I consider an oven that can do more than just treat parts under 1,200 degrees?

    Thanks in Advance,

    CC

    Possibly way out there question, possibly save you a lot of time, effort, and energy question... Do you NEED it to be H1150?

    Are you looking for the increase in yield strength, with the trade off in hardness? Are these your design, or a customer's?

    Take a look at the charts on Page 2 here: https://www.aksteel.com/sites/defaul...74ph201706.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Possibly way out there question, possibly save you a lot of time, effort, and energy question... Do you NEED it to be H1150?

    Are you looking for the increase in yield strength, with the trade off in hardness? Are these your design, or a customer's?

    Take a look at the charts on Page 2 here: https://www.aksteel.com/sites/defaul...74ph201706.pdf
    I make high-end electric skateboards and longboards. I've designed aluminum trucks (the lean-steer turning systems) that I machine in-house on my Haas VF-2 with a 4th Axis rotary indexer. The truck's hangers accept the stainless steel axle studs that I turn on my Haas ST-10. Some of our past axle designs had 9/16" hex features and were cut from 5/8" 17-4 PH H1150 stock which is readily available. Because I can't source the H1150 in 5/16" diameter rods, I have to use 3/8" stock and cut it down to 5/16" which IMHO is a waste of time and money.

    We've had great success with the H1150. H900 would probably work as well if it were available in 5/16". Everything that I've heard about 17-4 PH in the "Condition A" / "Annealed" state sounds really bad if left untreated. I can get 5/16" stock in Condition A and I think it's ever less expensive than H1150. I could make a rack to hold 256 axles or twice that if I stacked two racks. At the end of the day I'm open to "whatever metal works", but if getting this oven for under two grand gives me the ability to heat treat 5/16" 17-4 PH Cond A in-house, it seems like a good way to go.

    axles.jpg

    axle-oven.jpg

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    Where are you currently sourcing your material? They can't give you any advice?

    I mean, Fastenal lists it: 5/16" x 12' 17-4 H-1150 Stainless Steel Round Bar
    | Fastenal


    These guys list it: Size 5/16, 17-4 Annealed and Cold Finished Stainless Steel - Rounds On Fay Industries, Inc. (Steel * Saw Cutting)

    These guys make you ask for a quote: 17-4 PH Stainless Steel Bar - 17-4 ASTM A564 Supplier | Best Stainless

    I'm not endorsing any of them, just saying it seems like it's out there.

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    This appears to be stainless steel rubbing on stainless steel - sure to gall. There needs to be some bronze in there, so SS does not ride on SS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    No. Done correctly, they will be fine. 17-4 is VERY stable. One of my favorites.
    Stable?? Try grinding this stuff when it is 3" x 3" x 144" long and the customer wants it flat within .010".

    My guess is much smaller sections are nice to machine/grind?

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    I've done a ton of it, way smaller than that, condition a and then heat treated to h900. Even thin stuff didn't move. I once, accidentally, broiled a piece about .250 and like 4x4 at 1850 for like 3 hours and it only warped a few thou.

  18. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    Dang Bob, no love for 4140ht?

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    It doesn't stay shiny.


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