Help me determine what to pay for a surface grinder

Seems like I haven't been around here in forever! Could use a little help guys. I can't keep spinning the handwheel on my manual Boyer-Schultz SG due to a shoulder injury from my military service. I am now shopping for an automatic SG with at least two axes but, three would be killer. I'm in Texas so not a lot of inventory in the used market and new is out of the question. So, here's the question; as an infrequent buyer of machinery with no relationship with any dealers, how much could I reasonably expect to talk these guys down on a 20+ year old 2/3 axis surface grinder? I got a few quotes back and I think these guys are dreaming! Typical example: Kent 2-axis hydraulic 818 with coolant, EMC and OTW dresser slathered in fresh grey paint - $8500. I have a hard time believing they have more than $2k in that machine. Am I off base here or do I just need to wear my phone out trying to get a fair deal? Anyone got a good general rule on what I should throw out as a counter offer to a quote from a machine dealer?

Also, I'm going to look at a local 30+ year old K.O.Lee 2-axis 618 tomorrow. The guy says everything works and the spindle runs quietly but he's had it covered in the corner of his shop for 20 years (He's run it recently though). It has coolant and a permanent magnet chuck (no OTW). Says he bought it from a college auction 'bout 25 years ago. What's a fair price if it's actually good to go?


Thanks,


Bob

Hot Bob

Don't want to hijack your thread on pricing but I'm seriously considering retrofitting my SG with a small stepper motor to traverse x axis (and maybe y later if it's as simple as I think it should be). Have you considered modifying your BS SG if you're otherwise happy with it?

Personally I think their asking prices are a bit high. I used one like this for a few years and thought it did a fine job. It's a little older model in that the build date was 1990:

Kent Model KGS-250-AHD 8" X 18" Automatic Surface Grinder w/Incremental Downfeed | eBay

Note this one sold on eBay for a little less than $5,900.00. If you go to eBay and do an advanced search making sure you check the "sold listings" box you can see what units have sold for across the country. Some are a little difficult to decipher in that they were sold as "best offer". Even then you know the offer accepted was less than the asking price.

There are several similar size Kent automatic machines currently listed with prices ranging from $3,950.000 (or best offer) to $9,500.00. Several have "Best Offer" options.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_...Complete=1&_fosrp=1&_nkw=kent+surface+grinder

i got my okamoto 3 axis automatic SG for hauling it off. all it needed was 2 hydraulic hoses. point is some company somewhere is updating equipment and considers the old equipment worthless which is most likely what some dealers are paying

Dumpster_diving said:

Hot Bob

Don't want to hijack your thread on pricing but I'm seriously considering retrofitting my SG with a small stepper motor to traverse x axis (and maybe y later if it's as simple as I think it should be). Have you considered modifying your BS SG if you're otherwise happy with it?

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I am way too busy to get into a project like that. I'm keeping the B-S for smaller jobs and one off setups. I just can't spend hours at a time standing there turning the handles.

Bob

projectnut said:

Personally I think their asking prices are a bit high. I used one like this for a few years and thought it did a fine job. It's a little older model in that the build date was 1990:

Kent Model KGS-250-AHD 8" X 18" Automatic Surface Grinder w/Incremental Downfeed | eBay

Note this one sold on eBay for a little less than $5,900.00. If you go to eBay and do an advanced search making sure you check the "sold listings" box you can see what units have sold for across the country. Some are a little difficult to decipher in that they were sold as "best offer". Even then you know the offer accepted was less than the asking price.

There are several similar size Kent automatic machines currently listed with prices ranging from $3,950.000 (or best offer) to $9,500.00. Several have "Best Offer" options.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_...Complete=1&_fosrp=1&_nkw=kent+surface+grinder

Click to expand...

Good point about checking completed auctions on Ebay. I do look at new SG listings on Ebay every day...along with Craigslist and Bidspotter. I'm not necessarily set on a Kent either; any of the decent brands are fine with me but unless I find a smoking deal on a 2-axis, I'm probably going to hold out for a 3-axis.

Bob

cg285 said:

i got my okamoto 3 axis automatic SG for hauling it off. all it needed was 2 hydraulic hoses. point is some company somewhere is updating equipment and considers the old equipment worthless which is most likely what some dealers are paying

Click to expand...

Wow, I need a deal like that!! I've been drooling over a couple Okamoto 3-axis videos. Never used one but, they look like a Cadillac to me.

Bob

I think that not bad price..but for a top shape machine not out of a production shop.Good it is a V and flat way machine IMHO because I don't think much of a used ball or roller way machines unless I know where it came from.
This might be a very good machine but needs a feed repair.
Brown & Sharpe 618 hydraulic surface grinder - tools - by owner - sale

So, I went out and looked at the K.O.Lee 618 2A this morning. It was actually in pretty good shape. My only hesitation is that the max longitudinal feed speed seems to be 36fpm. Currently I grind dry on my B-S and speed is of the essence to prevent warping on my blades. If I'm running coolant, perhaps the speed is not as important. What do you guys think?

Bob

Hot Bob said:

Could use a little help guys. I can't keep spinning the handwheel on my manual Boyer-Schultz SG

Bob

Click to expand...

I fully agree with that statement! I had one and could not wait till I got a hydraulic one.

A Reid 2 axis hydraulic SG fell into my lap. It was bought in 1972 to support a testing lab. Very little time on it and and was in great condition. Just needed some clean up.

When it got delivered it fell on the spindle and damaged it. I sat on it for years and then decided it was time to replace it. I looked for about 2 years and did not find anything that I would consider buying. Either crazy prices or junk or both. I know they are out there, but I just did not find one.

I ended up fixing mine. Ended up rebuilding the hydraulics and cleaning the rest of it up and replacing the damaged parts. Pretty happy with the results.

The K.O.Lee 618 2A setting for 20 years I would run the spindle for a hour more to be sure the setting did not harm the spindle..guess I would run the long travel the same. why was it setting?.. replace by another SG?..if so why?
Likely I would not buy a machine with less HP that you are used to... if that be the cast.

michiganbuck said:

The K.O.Lee 618 2A setting for 20 years I would run the spindle for a hour more to be sure the setting did not harm the spindle..guess I would run the long travel the same. why was it setting?.. replace by another SG?..if so why?
Likely I would not buy a machine with less HP that you are used to... if that be the cast.

Click to expand...

I think the guy tried to make a go at running a small job/repair shop out of his home shop and it didn't work out. He had a nice, clean shop with some well maintained older machines. He was obviously still making chips but, said he worked out at the airport. He had a lot of his machines tarped so not sure if there was another SG in there but certainly possible. I checked to see if the spindle was warm before he started it and it was cold so I appreciate that he didn't warm it up before I got there. We ran it for about 20 minutes and the spindle was very quiet; far more so than my B-S.

I got some quotes back from some more machine dealers and there's just no way I can do business with those guys. If they can't rob you, they'd prefer to let the machine sit in their warehouse. I don't really get it. Surface grinders are secondary op machines. It's not like they are big money makers and yet, they act like it's going to spin gold. I'm going to keep looking for another week or so but, this K.O.Lee might be my best option.

Bob

The older machines are like gold, with iron scraped and oiled ways they are made to last 50 years with care and not running out of oil. Finding one in good condition or well rebuilt they are better than most new machines..
but yes many are way over priced just because of having the name and not in pristine condition.

I don't think the KoLee is as good as a B&S, Grand Rapids and a few of other top names but is a very good machine.. if in near like new, or just very good condition is a better machine than most/many brand new machines. IMHO.

Hot Bob Is the KoLee a oil ways or turcite ways machine? Guess you should take a part there and take a grind to see if good to your needs.

With two grinders in house creature comfort might a factor..Often I watch the part and just know where the handles are..
Some Ko Lees have handles/controls in odd places/some even hard to reach. Perhaps not reason to pass a really great condition machine..
I passed a re-scraped Reid oil way 618 auto machine with a bad motor last year(and I have a good extra motor) selling for $100 just because I was too busy and did not time. Still kicking myself for the pass.