Help request: Boring bar inserts

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rcn11thacr

Aluminum

Joined

Dec 5, 2019

• Sep 5, 2021

• #1

I recently purchased and use a Winona Va Norman Boring Bar in my shop to bore small engine cylinders. The model is: CB1401. Soon I will be in need of more inserts for this machine. The company wants over $220 for a box of inserts and I am interested to see if anyone has found other sources of inserts for this machine at a reasonable price? The factory part number for the inserts is: 35-4318 WINONA REPLACEMENT CRBD INSERT. The inserts I have currently are:
Triangular
Relief Angle I believe is 5 or 7 degrees
Accuracy: ?
IC: The actual hole diameter is 5/32
Thickness: 3/32
Cylindrical hole with no countersink
No chip breaker
Single sided cutter

NOTE: The corners of the triangle have a very pronounced wiper edge.

Anyone using a Van Norman CB1401 or is much better than I am at insert geometry and ordering, I would appreciate your input. Thank you.

 

S

slowmotion

Cast Iron

Joined

Mar 31, 2013

Location

Danville Virginia

• Sep 6, 2021

• #2

Get yourself an MSC catalog to determine what insert you have, the nomenclature is explained very clearly in the insert section (e.g.TCGT221-AK), then go to ebay where you will find them for 10% of that price.

 

Terry Keeley

Titanium

Joined

Oct 18, 2005

Location

Toronto, Canada eh!

• Sep 6, 2021

• #3

Insert chart

Looks like your basic shape might be TCGA? (boring inserts usually have higher clearance angles but you should check this, it could be 11*)

From there the numbers are ANSI (inch) or ISO (metric), ISO seems to be more common.

Measure the length of one side with calipers, a common boring size is 11mm.

3/32" thickness is ISO code 02.

Radius for boring tools is usually small, probably 0.004" so ISO 02.

So you might have a TCGA110202.

My favorite boring inserts are these Iscar TPGT110202-SP (super positive), they cut any material like budda:

https://www.iscar.com/eCatalog/Family.aspx?fnum=1682&mapp=IS&app=28&GFSTYP=M

I've had great service from this Ebay seller (no affiliation):

https://www.ebay.com/sch/indexablec...ide|folenttp:1&_trksid=p3542580.m47492.l71970

 

R

rcn11thacr

Aluminum

Joined

Dec 5, 2019

• Sep 6, 2021

• #4

Slow Motion, Thanks for your input. I did do a significant bit of research prior to requesting help. I do appreciate the feedback though.

The problem i have is finding the proper triangle with the edges that look like the ones that came with my boring machine. As you can see from the pictures, there is a definite edge/cant/corner to each point on the triangle. I cant find any with similar characteristics. Honestly, I'm not sure what to even call it. Is that a wiper edge? Each side of the triangle is 9.5mm

Terry,

Your help was greatly appreciated. I saved the links and also am actively looking through the eBay link now to see if anything looks similar. He has a lot of items to choose from!

 

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C

CarbideBob

Diamond

Joined

Jan 14, 2007

Location

Flushing/Flint, Michigan

• Sep 6, 2021

• #5

With that flat/wiper you can give up any and all inserts charts or easy interchange.
Bob

 

R

rcn11thacr

Aluminum

Joined

Dec 5, 2019

• Sep 6, 2021

• #6

So, if your correct and I will be unable to find an exact match for this insert. Do I have to use that particular type of insert with the flat wiper edge in a boring machine to get a good surface? I bought this machine used, and these inserts came with it. So I don't know if these are factory or not. I have 2 speeds on the spindle, 168 or 254 rpm and infinite feed variability via a dial. So I have the ability to control some factors. Is anyone using other types of inserts? Like Terry mentioned above, he uses the TPGT 110202-SP for his boring. I looked up that insert, and it is too large compared to this insert I have.

 

W

workin stiff

Banned

Joined

Aug 2, 2013

Location

stockton ca.

• Sep 6, 2021

• #7

Typically in the automotive world inserts are designed for mfgs. machine. Not a general purpose insert.

 

R

Ralph_P

Stainless

Joined

Jan 14, 2003

Location

E. TN USA

• Sep 6, 2021

• #8

[QUOTE
IC: The actual hole diameter is 5/32 QUOTE]

The IC (inscribed circle) is the circle that will fit inside the insert. Not the hole.
TECN 32R has the wiper but no hole.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

R

rcn11thacr

Aluminum

Joined

Dec 5, 2019

• Sep 6, 2021

• #9

True, yet boring applications and their insert availability are as wide and varied as the companies that sell them. Hence the reason why I came to the location where most machinists belly up to the bar for a cold one. Someone out there either knows these particular inserts or knows from experience that I don't, and which one's I should use. I just need to bet Las Vegas that those guys are drinking and willing to share their knowledge.

Ralph P: The Keocera TTX 32R6001 PR1115 grade PVD certainly is similar. Looks a lot like many threading inserts-in that it has that wiper edger look, like my insert does. Thanks for the input!

 

M

McClure Machine

Aluminum

Joined

Mar 22, 2018

• Sep 6, 2021

• #10

rcn11thacr said:

I recently purchased and use a Winona Va Norman Boring Bar in my shop to bore small engine cylinders. The model is: CB1401. Soon I will be in need of more inserts for this machine. The company wants over $220 for a box of inserts and I am interested to see if anyone has found other sources of inserts for this machine at a reasonable price? The factory part number for the inserts is: 35-4318 WINONA REPLACEMENT CRBD INSERT. The inserts I have currently are:
Triangular
Relief Angle I believe is 5 or 7 degrees
Accuracy: ?
IC: The actual hole diameter is 5/32
Thickness: 3/32
Cylindrical hole with no countersink
No chip breaker
Single sided cutter

NOTE: The corners of the triangle have a very pronounced wiper edge.

Anyone using a Van Norman CB1401 or is much better than I am at insert geometry and ordering, I would appreciate your input. Thank you.

Click to expand...

Goodson shop supplies, should have them in stock and they will be the correct ones for your boring machine. They specialize in automotive machine shop supplies.

 

R

rcn11thacr

Aluminum

Joined

Dec 5, 2019

• Sep 6, 2021

• #11

McClure Machine,

Thank you sir. I will contact them and see what they have available. I appreciate your input.

 

eKretz

Diamond; Mod Squad

Joined

Mar 27, 2005

Location

Northwest Indiana, USA

• Sep 7, 2021

• #12

Isn't VC2 a Valenite grade? Might try calling them, or whoever owns them now.

 

B

BT Fabrication

Titanium

Joined

Nov 3, 2019

Location

Ontario Canada

• Sep 7, 2021

• #13

the insert holder doesn't look like anything special, other then my guess is to leave a perfect 90 degree edge at the end of its stroke, probably something to do with cylinder liners needing a lip at the bottom of a bore.
id find a different triangle boring insert holder. looks like a standard 1/2" square holder.