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Help With Two B&S 00G Automatic Screw Machines

Trevlaw

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
First time posting on here. I'm 21 and I've been a CNC mill machinist for the last two years, but I recently found an ad on Craigslist for two Brown and Sharpe 00G screw machines. I didn't even know these machines existed two days ago, but I've been researching them nonstop for the last 48 hours and they are the coolest machine I've ever seen. I really enjoy older machinery, and I'd really like to pick these up just to keep them from being melted down.

I've talked to the seller and he picked these up from a shop two years ago, saw them running before hand and supposedly the shop had just put all new electrical components in them, what that means I have no idea. He bought them because his employee said he knew how to run them, but after he brought them back he realized he only knew how to run them, no clue on actually setting them up, so they've been sitting for two years. He has several of the brown and Sharpe manuals as well as 20 tools for them. He says one machine has the fixture and ability to do backwork and pick off capabilities. He's asking 950 for everything but is open to offers.

The picture of one of them shows the large leather spindle belt then I believe the chain drive going to the cam drive. I'm a little hesitant to post the CL link as I don't want anyone to swoop them up before me.

I don't have much idea of what I'd run on them yet, except for one part that is a .50" long spacer, .75" diameter with a .50" through hole. Though he told me the max capacity is .5" stock, I haven't seen the machines in person yet, but I'm curious what the limiting factor is keeping it at .5". Mainly curious if it would be possible to modify the machine so it could run .75" stock of larger with custom made parts. I know they're are more capable machines out there, but machinery is scarce on the west coast and I doubt anything will come along local anytime soon. I will probably still pick them up regardless, just curious.

Also if anyone with experience in these machines knows anything that would be good to check out in person for indications or wear, condition, or damage that would be very helpful as well. I haven't found a lot of information online, and I'm also curious what kind of tolerances these machines were able to hold fairly easily when new. 800-950 for the whole package seems like a pretty good deal, especially having two identical machines would be helpful for recreating any need parts for the machines

Any and all help is greatly appreciated,
Thanks, Trevor
 
Trev ,do not be concerned about anyone beating you to them...IMHO,the price has the dot in the wrong place.....I might add,about 30 years ago I bought two OO s ,still crated ,which sadly ,I scrapped without even looking at them.At that time ,nostalgia for these kinds of machines didnt exist....they were just obsolete.Anyhoo,they have rather small capacity ,like max under 1/2"...dunno if this suits you.....if you get all tooling and a good selection of cams,should be possible to cut some metal......You can use existing cams often by simply having excess stroke,slows the cycle,but still good for some purposes.
 
Trev ,do not be concerned about anyone beating you to them...IMHO,the price has the dot in the wrong place.....I might add,about 30 years ago I bought two OO s ,still crated ,which sadly ,I scrapped without even looking at them.At that time ,nostalgia for these kinds of machines didnt exist....they were just obsolete.Anyhoo,they have rather small capacity ,like max under 1/2"...dunno if this suits you.....if you get all tooling and a good selection of cams,should be possible to cut some metal......You can use existing cams often by simply having excess stroke,slows the cycle,but still good for some purposes.

Thanks for the reply. The seller told me he had gotten a quote for scrapping them and that's what he is trying to sell them for as he doesn't want them to be melted down. I might double check that scrap quote but it sounds pretty reasonable for 2,400lbs.

I'd like to try and learn to make my own cams, I have the programming and machines available to me in my off time at work, but finding jobs for them does seem rather difficult. Im still hoping they're might be a way to Frankenstein it and up the capacity though that's probably not likely since I'd imagine the stock feeds through the fairly long spindle I think. But this part I was hoping to make seems to be currently manufactured at a fairly higher price than I think I could it at once setup. Just a simple steel zinc coated spacer that sells in a rather niche automotive market for $3-5 a piece, but still in large quantities.

I'm hoping to go check them out this Friday and see how they look
 
I ran screw machines many years ago. They're great for what they do best- make lots of small parts FAST. I don't know what industry uses today as a replacement. They're only useful for large quantities, though, such as thousands of parts. I also used to run multi-spindle screw machines, which make really large quantities. The work orders we got were in the millions of parts.

When I had my own shop, I had a new CNC lathe and a Swiss-type cam operated screw machine, built in 1953. The Swiss machine made several parts in the amount of time it took the CNC lathe to just feed out stock. I lost my butt trying to run production parts with the CNC. Screw machines, even pre-WWII feed out stock in 1/2 second, and also index in 1/2 second. Chip-to-chip time with a proper set of cams is about 1 second. As I said, I don't know what companies use today when they need millions of small parts. If I could find the work, I'd love to have a couple old-school screw machines clacking away out in my barn.

There's not much to the electrics, at least on the older ones. Everything is mechanical, other than a single electric motor. Making cams isn't hard, if you can find an older Brown & Sharpe manual. We used to lay them out, rough with a bandsaw, then smooth them up with a belt sander, grinder, or file. Of course, a CNC mill would make very short work out of making cams. How ironic would that be- using CAD and a CNC mill to make cams for an 80 year old Brownie!
 
Dobedave, down there in Taxes, made a good living with screw machines, pretty much out of his garage. I'm thinking that if you can get them old clunkers for small enough money you could still do pretty good in the garage. Unattended. With no electronics.

What's not to like ?
 
I have a shop full of Brown and Sharpe machines. I have 4 "00" Double Ought machines and will be grabbing 2-4 more in the near future.

I also know how to make my own cams. If these machines have chain driven spindles (you will see chains behind the spindle instead of belts) they can be useful. The only belt on the machine should be on the back running from the motor on the bottom to the top. It has a decent size flywheel at the top of the belt.

They are quick and very accurate for small simple parts. Think watch companies or small pins and dowels. I see a lot of SS fittings for medical industry as well.

If the machine is older it will have belt driven spindle and it will look older.

As far as a machine goes. It is just a casting with moving parts mounted on it. Replace all the roller pins on the cams, pull the gibs and clean them. Clean all lube oil lines and run the machine with fresh oil on all moving parts.

These can be workhorses and with small diameter parts the chips dont get too big. I run 316 SS all day on 2 of them unattended. Firearms pins, bushings, etc.

If you want to know more about these get in touch. I can be available for a phone call from time to time if need be.

-Dan
 
Thanks for the reply. The seller told me he had gotten a quote for scrapping them and that's what he is trying to sell them for as he doesn't want them to be melted down. I might double check that scrap quote but it sounds pretty reasonable for 2,400lbs.

Around here 2400 lbs is around $75 scrap price. I got around $0.03 per pound earlier this year. The most I ever got was $0.10 per pound but its dropped a lot since then.
 
Thank you everyone, this is all very helpful information and ideas.

At least one of the machines is a chain drive, one big belt and two smaller chain drives. Hopefully the other machine is the same. The machines include several manuals, one of which sounds like the one outlining how to make cams. Being able to open it up to 5/8" would be perfect for the spacer I have in mind. If I can make them out of stainless that would negate the need for zinc coating. They would need to be at least as hard as A36 as they will be torqued by DIY grease monkeys with an impact. I'm thinking 17-4 might be my best bet, I've only worked with it in a mill and it's a pain but I've heard that it is a lot nicer to machine on a lathe.

I obviously am not up to date with the entire industry and available machines, but other than larger multi spindle screw machines I haven't come across a newer alternative that seems to be as effective. Leaving me thinking that there may be a niche in my market I could capitalize on even just as a guy with two of these in my garage.

I would most likely have to set these up at home or somewhere without 3 phase. Are there any downsides to using a single to 3 phase converter with these, or should the machine run exactly the same? No experience with converters as of yet.

I'd never heard of forming tools until researching these, and only have a general visualization of them in my head. Is the tooling necessary to run these machines still around or available? Running several thousand of these spacers in 17-4 has me curious what the tool wear will be like as well as holding tolerances over a large job? I don't have any experience running jobs at work much more than 200 parts at a time max, thought that's a completely different machine.

I'm going to do everything I can to try and pick up these machines, just need to find a place to store them. I appreciate everyone's help, and Dan I may take you up on that phone call once I have the machines
 
A rotary phase converter (RPC) is what you want to power them. You can make one with an old 3 phase motor as the main part. This is the idler motor and needs to be about double the size of the lathes motor.
 
I’m fascinated by those machines. I won’t pretend to know anything about them. I worked in a shop many years ago which had many running all the time. I loved the sound and smell. My job involved coming in after school and helping “Buck” the owner (a wonderful man) clean and paint machines. I finally ran me off by putting me on a small turret lathe to do a small run of special pipe fittings. There were only 900 to be made and there was no way a screw machine was getting setup for that. I couldn’t and cant deal with repetition. After I quit, I would still come in and use some of his manual machines. I broke a pie shaped section out of a surface grinder wheel trying to deck the cylinder of my Yamaha 125. I can’t believe I had it supported only by the iron liner and was grinding aluminum by spraying WD40. I learned much about what not to do. Fond memories of a great friend to me during my often mis-spent youth. I guess that was around 1972.

Those machines spit out a heck of a lot of parts.
 
a lot better off getting a old 2G B&S .... I run one a lot and it has a 6 second run time ... I had National tool and cam make me up some generic cames as I call them and there great ,, full travel of the slide all with a .004 feed rate ... main cam has a stock feed and a .250 travel center drill and then the long travel drill feed .... yes they cut a "LOT" of air doing it that way but the setup for 99% of the parts I have done on it is about 30 min tops ... if you want a really simple screw machine look for a Traub A25 ... there great for simple parts .
 
Brownies

Trevor,
Where, in Oregon, are you? I live outside Coos Bay, and have a number of these machines. A double ought, of which I have four, I have seen usually in the $500 range. As with all machines, the money is in the tooling...used cams can sometimes be reconfigured for jobs not originally intended. They should be considered "open tolerance" machines....005-.010", considering their age, and the millions of parts they may have produced.

You can learn to operate and set them up with a few days/weeks effort. To really know what you are doing will take a bit longer....
 
I'm assuming you mean unnecessary wear on the machine, not the tooling, though obviously both will wear. There won't be a lot of heavy cuts, probably just a minimum clean on the outside diameter, or I might be able to just leave it as raw stock depending on its surface finish. Then just a center drill, drill, possibly a reamer, and a chamfer on both ends.

Thanks for the link on the converter, I'll start researching those
 
a lot better off getting a old 2G B&S .... I run one a lot and it has a 6 second run time ... I had National tool and cam make me up some generic cames as I call them and there great ,, full travel of the slide all with a .004 feed rate ... main cam has a stock feed and a .250 travel center drill and then the long travel drill feed .... yes they cut a "LOT" of air doing it that way but the setup for 99% of the parts I have done on it is about 30 min tops ... if you want a really simple screw machine look for a Traub A25 ... there great for simple parts .

I would be open to a different machine if they were available, but I have never seen anything else around me here on the west coast, and I search Craigslist very thoroughly. I will be keeping an eye out from now on though, I'll look into the Traub as well
 
Trevor,
Where, in Oregon, are you? I live outside Coos Bay, and have a number of these machines. A double ought, of which I have four, I have seen usually in the $500 range. As with all machines, the money is in the tooling...used cams can sometimes be reconfigured for jobs not originally intended. They should be considered "open tolerance" machines....005-.010", considering their age, and the millions of parts they may have produced.

You can learn to operate and set them up with a few days/weeks effort. To really know what you are doing will take a bit longer....
I currently live in Philomath, by Corvallis. I think I'll be able to check the machines out this weekend and see what all is there as far as cams and tooling. 5 to 10 thou should at least be good enough for these parts, considering the drill/reamer shouldn't change a bunch. Is new tooling still available for these machines? I'll have a better idea of what I'm talking about after I see them, but can a single point turning tool be used, or are forming tools mainly used? I don't have much lathe experience at all and have never seen a forming tool, but I think I'm picturing it correctly.

I'm sure I can figure out how to make cams and set these guys up, how long it will take is another story. But these days I've got a lot more time than money so no problem there.

Do you know if there are any big red flags too look for when I check these out that would basically make them scrap vs useable? From the sound of it they should be in decent shape, just need the cobwebs knocked off.
 
if you want a really simple screw machine look for a Traub A25 ... there great for simple parts .
If you do search for Traubs an A42 would not be a bad choice either. Tooling will not be that much higher, more room to work. Some day you may be glad for the extra capacity. I have run 1/8 inch stock in mine with no real trouble.
 
You have lots of good advice but remember you are dealing with old technology, when you get to see the machines get them powered up and check all the backshaft functions are ok, from the book you have seen you will identify all the trips on the front shaft so check that the feed, indexing, speedchange all work ok, make sure that you get a set of gears for speeds and cycle times.
If you buy, get as many cams and tool holders as you can.
I too run a 00 19 which has an enlarged feed system to take 19 mm bar, yours will be smaller and expensive to enlarge if the parts aren't there.
You ask about form tools, don't worry too much about them yet, but consider having a parting tool with a shoulder on the collet side of it, when thepart off s done the shoulder will form the chamfer on the end of the next part.
I would look at simple work under half inch diameter without threading as a start. Good luck
 
Those machines have been on craigslist Portland for several years for $950. Maybe a decade that guy's been trying to sell them. You didn't find anything new. Scrap is at like 40 a ton right now. Those machines are worth nothing, not a penny.

You should RUN from those things at 21 with no place to put them. Total waste of time and money. If one of those was free I'd set it in my office and spin it with a gear motor for people to look at.

You want to sell some simple spacers for $3 each? have someone make you $950 of them and sell those thousands of spacers for a profit.

If you have a place to put a machine get a small CNC lathe and a mill. You can crank plenty of parts out with them.
 








 
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