HES 10x16" Lathe Questions:

Ford1932 · Jun 14, 2016

Hello all, I am new to this forum and was wondering if anyone could help me.

I just purchased this HES 10x16" lathe at an auction for $2k. It is fully functional and runs very nice.

I do have some questions about it though:

Can anybody identify the model I have (see attached pics)?
Where can I get an english manual?
What oil do I use in the spindle box (Top)?
What oil do I use in the gear box (Under Spindle)?
What oil do I use to lube the carriage gears?

I have run lathes in the past, but never had to oil them (worked for a large corporation).

Now am in a smaller company and need to know these details.

Looking forward to your help and thank you in advance.

johnoder · Jun 14, 2016

What oil do I use in the spindle box (Top)?
What oil do I use in the gear box (Under Spindle)?
What oil do I use to lube the carriage gears?

Suggestions - assuming no hydraulic shifting involved

ISO 46 circulating oil in top gear box - like Mobil DTE Medium
ISO 68 circulating oil in lower gearbox - like Mobil DTE Heavy Medium
ISO 68 way oil in apron - like Mobil Vactra #2 - assuming way oiling system in place and functional

upthebikes · Jun 15, 2016

Very nice looking small lathe. Looks like it's a Henry Ernault Somua model AC280 lathe. It might help you in your search that older machines could also be found with the name Ernault Batignolles.

I don't know about an english manual, but "tour" is the french word for lathe and if you google "Henry Ernault Somua AC280 tour" you'll find several french sites and forums with information. Someone on this site from a French speaking country likely has more knowledge of this machine, good luck on your search.

phm87 · Jun 15, 2016

That is a sweet looking fit for purpose lathe.

Ford1932 · Jun 15, 2016

johnoder said:
Suggestions - assuming no hydraulic shifting involved

ISO 46 circulating oil in top gear box - like Mobil DTE Medium
ISO 68 circulating oil in lower gearbox - like Mobil DTE Heavy Medium
ISO 68 way oil in apron - like Mobil Vactra #2 - assuming way oiling system in place and functional

Thank you Johnoder. No hydraulic shifting, all manual shift with levers in front.

Will be ordering the two Mobil DTE 10 series oil and the Vactra oil.

Ford1932 · Jun 15, 2016

upthebikes said:
Very nice looking small lathe. Looks like it's a Henry Ernault Somua model AC280 lathe. It might help you in your search that older machines could also be found with the name Ernault Batignolles.

I don't know about an english manual, but "tour" is the french word for lathe and if you google "Henry Ernault Somua AC280 tour" you'll find several french sites and forums with information. Someone on this site from a French speaking country likely has more knowledge of this machine, good luck on your search.

Thanks upthebikes. I found a complete french manual, I can work with that using google translate. Also used your tips on searching and found some disassembly pics and forum threads on this machine (thanks google translate again).

Ford1932 · Jun 15, 2016

phm87 said:
That is a sweet looking fit for purpose lathe.

Thanks phm. We are designers and builders of high speed instrumentation for high energy physics research. Ocassionally we have to modify parts made by other machine shops or build some test fixturing. This machine will not see any heavy work, but it is perfect for the small jobs we will have.

traditional-tools · Jun 15, 2016

Those are nice lathes, there was one out here at auction with an 8' bed, but nobody willing to pay any serious cash for it, and it sold for $1200...really nice machines. Good luck on finding an English manual for it, they're made in France as I recall.

JRIowa · Jun 16, 2016

Ford1932 said:
Will be ordering the two Mobil DTE 10 series oil and the Vactra oil.

Where did you come up with 10 series? IMHO, you need to find a manual first and find out which oil exactly you are supposed to use. It does make a difference.

Ebay has always been a place to start.
This guy has some manuals, just not the correct one. Contact them.
H Ernault Somua HNC 4 45 6 Center Lathe Instruction Manual | eBay

If no luck, go to Tony's UK site. An email might be in order.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/

If you really need to spend your money on oil and want a numbered series Mobil oil, I suggest you get DTE24 for the headstock, and either DTE25 or DTE26 for the other gear boxes. Way oil will be Vactra 2.

Best is to wait and find out for certain.
JR

michiganbuck · Jun 16, 2016

Very nice machine, good find... Thinking 16" is so short. You might consider a project of making a tail-shorty that would be a tail fixture perhaps 6" long, scraper or ground to fit your bed, and having a center perhaps threaded with a jam nut would be a simple method..Yes just for between centers long jobs.

Might even make it like an angle plate with the base 6 or 8" and only 2" standing at the far right to hold the center so making her a 1024 or 1030 perhaps..

You could bump it to your head for center.. but far out consider the height might not be the same so might have to make up (or down) a few thousandths to match.

Yes that tail looks heavy and perhaps to much to lift off, Might need a sky hook.

sandiapaul · Jun 16, 2016

Congrats on the purchase, I was watching that one.

Ford1932 · Jun 16, 2016

JRIowa said:
Where did you come up with 10 series? IMHO, you need to find a manual first and find out which oil exactly you are supposed to use. It does make a difference.

Ebay has always been a place to start.
This guy has some manuals, just not the correct one. Contact them.
H Ernault Somua HNC 4 45 6 Center Lathe Instruction Manual | eBay

If no luck, go to Tony's UK site. An email might be in order.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/

If you really need to spend your money on oil and want a numbered series Mobil oil, I suggest you get DTE24 for the headstock, and either DTE25 or DTE26 for the other gear boxes. Way oil will be Vactra 2.

Best is to wait and find out for certain.
JR

Thanks JR for chiming in. I have not ordered the oil yet. I did see the DTE 20 series oils but wasn't sure about them.

I do have a "French" manual and the only thing it says is:

Use oils with viscosity of:
- 24/25 @ 20 degrees C
- 4/4, 5 @ 50 degrees C

I don't know what is currently in it now as the previous owner is out of business.

michiganbuck · Jun 16, 2016

Might be able to get a few pages copied here
HES Lathes, Toyoda Lathes | KD Machine Tool Parts

JRIowa · Jun 16, 2016

Ford1932 said:
Use oils with viscosity of: - 24/25 @ 20 degrees C - 4/4, 5 @ 50 degrees C

That would be the headstock oil. Weird temps, but converts to an ISO 22. That's going to be hard to find in gallon containers.
Hydraulic anti-wear Mobil DTE 22 or Shell Tellus 22 AFAIK, both only available in 5 gal pails
spindle oil Mobil Velocite #10 On sale at ENCO for $19.95/gal

That probably isn't the oil for the gearbox, apron, and ways. You need to find those oils also.

If you have a French manual, you might contact a local college language dept if you can't find an English manual.
JR

johnoder · Jun 16, 2016

ISO 22 = Mobil Velocite 10, a spindle oil

Nater8er1 · Jun 17, 2018

Ford1932 said:
Hello all, I am new to this forum and was wondering if anyone could help me.

I just purchased this HES 10x16" lathe at an auction for $2k. It is fully functional and runs very nice.

I do have some questions about it though:

Can anybody identify the model I have (see attached pics)?
Where can I get an english manual?
What oil do I use in the spindle box (Top)?
What oil do I use in the gear box (Under Spindle)?
What oil do I use to lube the carriage gears?

I have run lathes in the past, but never had to oil them (worked for a large corporation).

Now am in a smaller company and need to know these details.

Looking forward to your help and thank you in advance.

I just bought the exact same lathe but I need to do a little restoring to it. Im looking for more info about this lathe, manual? Any more information or even pointing me in the right direction would be awesome!

thermite · Jun 17, 2018

Ford1932 said:
Thanks upthebikes. I found a complete french manual, I can work with that using google translate. Also used your tips on searching and found some disassembly pics and forum threads on this machine (thanks google translate again).

It's a lathe, not a novel, nuclear physics, philosophy, nor a religion.

There will only be a very small subset of the language to be translated. The rest has to make sense, regardless.

secetal · Jun 20, 2018

My Dad was a service engineer for HEB which became HES. I remember him saying the HEBs used a special oil in the saddle gearbox that was heavier than water which allowed the water based coolant to float on the oil and drain out some type of overflow system. I am not sure this applied lathes other than the OP 320 tracer lathes. Martin

JRIowa · Jun 20, 2018

secetal said:
I remember him saying the HEBs used a special oil in the saddle gearbox that was heavier than water which allowed the water based coolant to float on the oil

Heavier than water oil. That, I'd like to see.
JR

secetal · Jun 20, 2018

I probably should have used the term lubricant as I don’t know if it was actually an oil. Martin

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