High speed parting blades--why? - Page 4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    If we're on the subject of revolutionary inventions in machining, here is my list from best to least significant:

    1) Carbide
    2) Coolant fed drills
    3) Variable index endmills (BIG deal, there)
    4) ISO standard turning inserts
    5) Graduating from APKT milling inserts
    6) OSG Mega Muscle drills
    7) Rigid tapping
    #5, Graduating 'FROM' APKT inserts----to what? Real curious on this one.

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    '' High speed parting blades--why? ''

    Because some of us like them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    '' High speed parting blades--why? ''

    Because some of us like them.
    And among the reasons we like 'em is because it is CHEAP and even EASY to provide SERIOUS support. And serious DEPTH or "reach".

    I kid you not. Support directly under the tool-tip, and clear TF down to the top-slide. Or even to a supporting slide bar across the BED!

    Simple as about a one-third length of a bustid PHS blade on a light lathe, or a decent slice of Timken Graph-Mo die steel on a heavier one...and there yah have it.

    Stiffern' a wedding-night ....... whatchmacallit?

    Try THAT on eight inch plus alloy steel with yer Funk and Aloris "cue sea tea pee" Arrakis Shai-Hulud-caller.



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    Vee belts instead of flat belts?! Here to stay or just a fad?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    If we're on the subject of revolutionary inventions in machining, here is my list from best to least significant:

    1) Carbide
    2) Coolant fed drills
    3) Variable index endmills (BIG deal, there)
    4) ISO standard turning inserts
    5) Graduating from APKT milling inserts
    6) OSG Mega Muscle drills
    7) Rigid tapping
    I'd put carbide tooling as one of the revolution inventions in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClappedOutBport View Post
    Vee belts instead of flat belts?! Here to stay or just a fad?
    Mixed outcome. Flat is still around. See PolyVee, MicroVee, several geometries of synchronous as alternatives. Classical Vee is Do-Do bird dead, most "new" design-wins of any seriousness.


    I'd put carbide tooling as one of the revolution inventions in the world.
    "Societal shift", that one. NOT just technology. An "enabler".

    Fewer brains needed at machine-tools. More brains needed in cutting-tool maker's labs and fabs.

    Great "leverage" effect, though.

    No longer need the skill to calculate, grind, set, and maintain tools?

    No longer need a human at the machine-tool at all.

    See "lights out" operation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClappedOutBport View Post
    Vee belts instead of flat belts?! Here to stay or just a fad?



    I'd put carbide tooling as one of the revolution inventions in the world.
    Some say it won the war..Germans were using for armor plate and USa was using it for cutting tools.
    GE/carbloy was a major design/invertor.

    Yes, along with radar..with not that we likely would have lost..

    and the big bomb...

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Some say it won the war..Germans were using for armor plate and USa was using it for cutting tools.
    GE/carbloy was a major design/invertor.
    If you peruse the google book section and search for "machinery magazine"
    around 1954, they was an article about how Carbloy designed and produced
    armor piercing rounds for WW2, made from carbide.

    I had a copy, now gone, and finding it on google books has proven futile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Some say it won the war..Germans were using for ammor plate and USa was using it for cutting tools.
    GE/carbloy was a major design/invertor.

    Yes, along with radar..with not that we likely would have lost..

    and the big bomb...
    Uhh no. The Germans surely knew HOW. Carboloy had been a German/US joint venture monopoly. But they were not using much Tungsten in any form at all.

    Weird-Adolf was essentially cut-off from supplies of "Wolfram" ores to make Tungsten-Carbide tooling or Tungsten alloys of any kind from, beginning the earliest days of the war. Had to move across OCEANS if not Russia, and he didn't have a hall-pass for either one. Best he had was an amazing tonnage of high-Nickel ores from "neutral" Sweden.

    Zero chance of a loss. Western Allies or Stalin - either one - could have handled it alone. Just would have taken 12 months longer.

    Weird-Adolf had but a fraction of the resources needed to support his fantasy. The Allies kept turning every flavour of them - fantasy itself saved for last - into history faster than he could replace them - but they could do.

    Economics 101. War is economics by noisier means.

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    According to his biography Axel Wickman (of Wickman multispindle and Wimet tool fame) gained a lot of Carbide knowledge from pre war Germany (he was the agent for Shutte auto lathes and dealt with Krupps ) and ''donated '' his knowledge and knowhow etc etc (said to be worth many many 000's) to GE Carboloy F.O.C. as a contribution to the war effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluechipx View Post
    #5, Graduating 'FROM' APKT inserts----to what? Real curious on this one.
    Several options there. The biggest difference is either more cutting edges or better geometry.
    Iscar's T490 (and all their imitators :rolleye5 have a tangential insert with 4 cutting edges and an extremely robust edge due to all the carbide lined up behind it.
    Then there are the more free-cutting ones like Ingersoll's DiPos Tetra with 4 cutting edges and a very high positive geometry.
    Plus ones like Iscar's H690 with 6 cutting edges.
    APKT technology is Cold War era. It works okay, but there are much better tools out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluechipx View Post
    #5, Graduating 'FROM' APKT inserts----to what? Real curious on this one.
    To damn near anything else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    According to his biography Axel Wickman (of Wickman multispindle and Wimet tool fame) gained a lot of Carbide knowledge from pre war Germany (he was the agent for Shutte auto lathes and dealt with Krupps ) and ''donated '' his knowledge and knowhow etc etc (said to be worth many many 000's) to GE Carboloy F.O.C. as a contribution to the war effort.
    GE were the horses asses there. Fought allowing other capable metals houses paralleling their product to expand availability for so-called "the war effort".
    We had more than a few that only halfway did their duty.

    Enter Mo-Max.

    We HAD Molybdenum mines in the continental USA, so it was not only plentiful, it was also cheaper. Revive England's Hastelloy/Stellite technology on a beefed-up scale. Bless you, minerals-rich Canada.

    Yet-today, I "prefer" a "good all-around, regardless" Crucible Rex 95 over M-series, save M42 for drills, but I'm also good with Tatung-G.

    Speed was more about heat than hardness anyway. BFD. HSS-Cobalt/Tatung-G is fast enough for me and hard as need be.

    And I have enough put by to last me.... already PAID FOR. Long time ago, much of it. Not made in China nor Inja, neither.

    Pittsburgh born? It was not until into 1947 yah could even see the sun at high noon as more than an angry RED ball for the smoke from the mills of the "Forge of the Universe".

    No more need of armour-plate? Back to making steel for a pent-up demand for EVERYTHING else!

    Forty-six, Pittsburgh's mills outproduced the entire rest of the world.
    Combined.
    Including all other US mills.

    So I like those last two parts best of all!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    According to his biography Axel Wickman (of Wickman multispindle and Wimet tool fame) gained a lot of Carbide knowledge from pre war Germany (he was the agent for Shutte auto lathes and dealt with Krupps ) and ''donated '' his knowledge and knowhow etc etc (said to be worth many many 000's) to GE Carboloy F.O.C. as a contribution to the war effort.
    Story I have heard is that Germans jumped on the tungsten carbide tooling lot faster as they saw it as a more efficient way to use the limited tungsten supply.
    And Americans went to molybdenium-HSS instead of tungsten-HSS.

    At least we don't have uranium-alloyed HSS anymore

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    Quote Originally Posted by AARONT View Post
    To damn near anything else?
    Please enlighten me on the apkt style inserts, I'm apparently not spoiled by something better yet. I use them all the time and don't see what the trouble is (yet?). I even have several face mills that use the edges of the inserts that aren't meant to be cutting edges and they work pretty good, sort of like the CNMG trick that tool designers caught on to at a point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Meh, that's for kids.

    I've got a lathe that I can part off stock with a laser.
    Silly. No wonder you want to be taught you like to cut up in class when you should be learning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluechipx View Post
    Please enlighten me on the apkt style inserts, I'm apparently not spoiled by something better yet. I use them all the time and don't see what the trouble is (yet?). I even have several face mills that use the edges of the inserts that aren't meant to be cutting edges and they work pretty good, sort of like the CNMG trick that tool designers caught on to at a point.
    you wont find any apkt on late model cutters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    I can get close.

    YouTube

    Side note: if you watch the whole video, the sample part is a muzzle brake. I have one on my desk at work, in stainless. Neat stuff
    You have your own desk eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluechipx View Post
    Please enlighten me on the apkt style inserts, I'm apparently not spoiled by something better yet. I use them all the time and don't see what the trouble is (yet?). I even have several face mills that use the edges of the inserts that aren't meant to be cutting edges and they work pretty good, sort of like the CNMG trick that tool designers caught on to at a point.
    Most of the big players don't make APKT tool bodies anymore AFAIK.
    It's simply an old technology that was long due for an upgrade.
    Go to Iscar's website, they have a better propaganda page......

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    I got a HSS parting blade holder with my lathe, when the single HSS blade broke I bought a 2mm cheap replacement as a quick fix. Still going on that quick fix, a real POS it is, but after some fettling and my own grinding of the carbide inserts it works fine. There's an ISCAR model I want to get once I wear out all the inserts I got for this one.

    Here's the original, weird swedish spring loaded contraption:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluechipx View Post
    The carbide insert system for cut off has a unique top geometry the forms a chip narrower than the groove, if you are successful with a HSS blade you must have a certain way of sharpening the tip that makes it work for you. My congratulations on that, one question though, do you use power feed when parting? It's still hard for me to imagine a person using HSS with a calm, relaxed look on their face when doing it!
    I grind the cutting edge at a maybe 5 degree angle. Works very well. No problems with or without the feed. For stainless and harder ferrous metals I us the carbide insert style. 80% of the time I use HSS.

    Thom J


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