Highest quality 5C collets
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  1. #1
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    Default Highest quality 5C collets

    Looking to buy a complete set of inch 5C collets, who can you recommend that is making the highest quality at this time?

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    Just order a complete set from Hardinge. 33 pieces is $1234.00. ShopHardinge - 09020700000000

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    Quote Originally Posted by naru View Post
    Just order a complete set from Hardinge. 33 pieces is $1234.00. ShopHardinge - 09020700000000
    By 32nds is only HALF a set. Unbridged gaps in it. 5C doesn't have much legitimate collapse range.

    Not a "set", but here's by 64ths:

    https://www.shophardinge.com/product...spx?catID=6888

    Could be money AND functionality ahead to lay-in an El Cheapo set, buy twosies and threesies from Hardinge only for the sizes as are actually USED.

    That way, you can respond to the unexpected reasonably well, have top-grade collets plus spares for where the WORK is, add as you go, not be carrying excess baggage.

    Seriously.

    Most "sets" see only a quarter of the sizes ever used. Just not always the same quarter, one craftsman to another, one year to another. They aren't Mardi Gras beads. Meant to do useful work, not decorate.

    Run what you got. Get what you run.

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    Hardinge indeed, I have a 64ths set, though in about 12 years I've not used half of them yet. Doing it again I'd probably get a 16th set and just add the other odds ones when I need them. Back when I bought my full set they were a fair bit less $ than now though.

    Fyi, you can easily make thin sleeves when you have to hold odd sizes in a larger collet for low qty jobs.

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    Important to note. All early, I believe to the mid 1980's Hardinge 5C were to their 'guaranteed' accuracy tolerance. I forget what it was exactly. Then to remain competitive they downgraded the standard 5C to basically the standard tolerance of the other top makers.

    They still made the Super Accuracy ones and they were marked as I think SC or SA. They were much more expensive than the standard ones.

    If you have old Hardinge 5C collets they are all to the 'super accuracy' tolerance the later ones with laser markings have to actually be marked as such to be the 'guaranteed' tolerance ones.

    I would have to dig around as most all of mine are the old style stamped ones but I do think I have some later ones with the SA(C) laser markings I could post pictures of.

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    Looks like Hardinge is still selling the super accuracy 5C collets, I'll likely go that route. Thanks to all for the excellent suggestions.

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    I only bought 1 of the special accuracy 5C for a specific repeat job. Rest of my set seems to always have been under .0005"tir.
    Maybe double check with Hardinge what their current tolerance on both of these are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    Looks like Hardinge is still selling the super accuracy 5C collets, I'll likely go that route. Thanks to all for the excellent suggestions.
    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    I only bought 1 of the special accuracy 5C for a specific repeat job. Rest of my set seems to always have been under .0005"tir.
    Maybe double check with Hardinge what their current tolerance on both of these are.
    It isn't Hardinge one needs to check with.

    It is how accurately and consistently the supplier of all that ultra-costly precision ground stock he who buys uber-precise 5C is making his parts from can hold to THEIR tolerances.

    Hardinge LIST SKU numbers for collets in steps of one-one-thousandth of an inch.

    A "set" of those will surely make a person's dick bigger, but it tears Hell out of the tooling budget as well as the storage space.

    We ignerent peons using common rolled, drawn, extruded, prior-operation, wotever stock have to JF deal with what materials we can afford to make parts from. It is whatever it is, and refuses to become more "on-size" just because we spent more on collets to grip specific sizes.

    Hence buying just the few, plus "over and under" adjacent precision, custom, or shop-bored soft or "emergency" collets to fit the stock or the parts off the prior operation.

    Cheaper that way. Even grips the goods better.

    Go figure.


    Then ALSO put some of the money NOT spent on massive sets to gather rust, oil-mist, coolant gum, swarf and dust into OTHER collet systems - most with a wider collapse range.

    Example:

    5C, 2J*

    ER40, ER20,

    TG100,

    Rubberflex 9XX*, Burnerd Multisize*

    That's probably around $2,500 - $3,500, my own spend, the "*' ones the only ones bought used as to collets, 2J, Rubberflex, Multisize also bought used as to closers,

    All my 5C-based step and pot chuck - up to 5" of the 7" max Hardinge made. are also used goods. The internal expanders are new.

    5C can be useful, certainly. Religion, not so much.

    Even IF.. a shop bought 5C in one-thou steps?

    Still can't touch the ER-20 for fine work, small end, the entire lot of the others I listed for large end range, nor even ANY ONE of the alternatives to 5C for GRIP.

    Variety isn't just the "spice of life". In a working shop, it is a practical necessity.

    Don't put all your fortune into but one "right answer".

    Lybarger's Corollary to Sod's law as it is, no "answer' ever seems to BE "right" for any longer than it takes to finish the job it was purchased for.

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    The man spent a lot of money on some very fine equipment , he wants collets of equal quality/spec.
    Doesn’t matter if it makes sense to anyone but him - I definitely get it, if I was rich I’d be doing the same thing, I’d probably have a Deckel on a mirror in my living room, along with the Bugatti Veyron and Ducati


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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    Quote Originally Posted by ripperj View Post
    The man spent a lot of money on some very fine equipment , he wants collets of equal quality/spec.
    Doesn’t matter if it makes sense to anyone but him - I definitely get it, if I was rich I’d be doing the same thing, I’d probably have a Deckel on a mirror in my living room, along with the Bugatti Veyron and Ducati
    The rest of us aren't so different. Just make my "mirror" display a 1931 Duesenburg, '34 Alvis, and a two-legged WHEELBARROW for less harmful application of two-wheels to an ageing bod!

    Just more practical along a similar journey. I'd still use the 2005 XJ8-L as secondary driver to the disposable MOPAR Car-a-vans, f'ristance.



    Example; All my "round" 5C and closures were modest-maker, but bought brand-new. USED 5C that "was originally" uber-precise but was sold-off for wear or damage has no attraction.

    Bought NEW also is a beautifully crafted and highly prized made in USA PRESENT DAY TG-100 from MariTool. There's your jewel-box goods as can still earn a crust in hard work, not just pretty-face as eye-candy.

    I'm not even certain Hardinge collets ARE still "Made in USA". Does anyone actually know?

    AFAIK, another "good one" - Crawford, now part of the 600 Group - ARE still "Made in the UK".

    And then.. there are German, Italian, Swiss, French, and Japanese makers, still-yet?

    So "good collets", yes.

    Holy grail? Not so much.

    It's still only 5C, after all.

    More beloved for cheap, cheerful, ubiquitous and "good enough" value-for-money challenge-meeter than for any absolute standard of virtue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    Looking to buy a complete set of inch 5C collets, who can you recommend that is making the highest quality at this time?
    Have noticed that the Hardinge collets have more spring action to them compared with others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    Have noticed that the Hardinge collets have more spring action to them compared with others.
    You and about ten million others presently still above-ground?

    Guess you can't be all-contrarian, all the time after all?



    Even so.. poor spring action on a(ny) "spring" collet is a b***dy nuisance, can mess-up cycle time, lead to scrap & crashes,

    BUT... it does NOT mean a cheaper collet will not grip tightly and center accurately, does it?

    Seems better to sometimes have a gooder fit than the wronger size... or nothing even close?

    It ain't whether our personal choicies for wish-list are righteous or not.

    Only how much of the entries on our lists we can actually afford.


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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    Even so.. poor spring action on a(ny) "spring" collet is a b***dy nuisance, can mess-up cycle time, lead to scrap & crashes,

    BUT... it does NOT mean a cheaper collet will not grip tightly and center accurately, does it?

    Seems better to sometimes have a gooder fit than the wronger size... or nothing even close?

    It ain't whether our personal choicies for wish-list are righteous or not.

    The problem with cheap collets that don't much or any spring action is that putting or withdrawing the material from the collet scratches the material. Nothing worse than finding scratch marks on nicely ground/turned diameters. A cheap collet that grips tightly (no reason it shouldn't) and has an acceptable runout isn't much good in my book if it leaves marks on the part.

    Collets that dont have spring action I jam o-ring cord in the slot to give it some spring action. Works ok on large diameter collets, not so much on smaller diameters

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    The problem with cheap collets that don't much or any spring action is that putting or withdrawing the material from the collet scratches the material. Nothing worse than finding scratch marks on nicely ground/turned diameters. A cheap collet that grips tightly (no reason it shouldn't) and has an acceptable runout isn't much good in my book if it leaves marks on the part.

    Collets that dont have spring action I jam o-ring cord in the slot to give it some spring action. Works ok on large diameter collets, not so much on smaller diameters
    "Back in the day".. when we MADE our own C-series collets as a matter of routine (3C ISTR?) because it was helpful to have a 4-finger split rather than 3-finger, we'd get a low-springiness one now and then. One simply hand-bumped the handwheel-not-hand-lever closers to pop the drawtube full-forward.

    Part of the reason many of us prefer 2J, even where larger and clumsier (and more expensive, per-collet) than 5C as could easily cover a given diameter is that they have more meat overall, and where it helps them last a lot longer for the money spent.

    There's easily a dozen if not TWO dozen collet "systems" still in regular use, not museum display.

    Every damned one of them does "something" well-enough to keep on selling.

    Every one of them is ALSO "wrong choice for...." one or several challenges of material or of other use-circumstance as well.

    TANSTAFFL.

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    I have some experience with 5c collets.
    I looked at the Royal site, it appears they are moving to other systems. Years ago, I purchased a set of high accuracy Royal 5c collets for tool grinding, but they do not offer those anymore.
    I had a job of modifying an existing part, the tolerance was, must be better then .0002" concentric to the original part. I copied a then available Adjustable for Run-out CNC 5c collet chuck. It adjust much like a Buck set-true 3 jaw chuck.
    I adapted the adjustable 5c collet chuck to this small lathe, also using a hand wheel closer, a combination that simply can be dialed in true.



    collet chuck in the tailstock also

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    Is that shine brushed on, sprayed on, or a dip?



    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    I have some experience with 5c collets.
    I looked at the Royal site, it appears they are moving to other systems. Years ago, I purchased a set of high accuracy Royal 5c collets for tool grinding, but they do not offer those anymore.
    I had a job of modifying an existing part, the tolerance was, must be better then .0002" concentric to the original part. I copied a then available Adjustable for Run-out CNC 5c collet chuck. It adjust much like a Buck set-true 3 jaw chuck.
    I adapted the adjustable 5c collet chuck to this small lathe, also using a hand wheel closer, a combination that simply can be dialed in true.



    collet chuck in the tailstock also

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    Interestingly, for the Hardinge Special Accuracy Collets, they are claiming maximum 0.0002" TIR.


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