Hiring help

It looks like I will be in charge of hiring a new employee where I work. It will be mostly machinist work, but possibly some other fabrication work also. My main concern is about how many personal tools I can expect someone to have. Personally I feel that if you don't have any tools you are willing to use, you're not taking your profession very seriously. However, I have been told of situations where workers weren't allowed to have any personal tools.

What other traits should I be looking for? Red flags I should avoid?

I would try and make sure he/she was trainable---would be more concerned with that than some documented paperwork. If they can take constructive criticism---good.
A red flag, to me, would be negative comments they make about former employer---if they talk negative about them, rest assured you will get same treatment.
You can teach them what you want done.

What tools somebody has are the absolute last thing I had ever even thought about when hiring somebody. I've seen people that didn't even own their own set of calipers machine circles around people with a giant box full of every gizmo, doo-dad, and gadget out there.

I can't give much advice, my hiring success rate was really pretty low. Especially with un skilled people. Much better with skilled, but still not stellar.

Look for gaps in employment, if the gaps are exactly as long as unemployment benefits, not so good.

As for skilled folks, I found the hardest thing to do was "un-train" them of bad habits.

One VERY important thing. Make sure you hire them with a probationary period, and DO NOT be afraid to use it. When I worked in a non related field, we went through on average 4 to 5 people to get one that fit in and worked well.

Bobw said:

As for skilled folks, I found the hardest thing to do was "un-train" them of bad habits.

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I have found this to be true as well. I have had much better luck hiring "Green" employees and training them myself. We give everyone a tool allowance so that they can purchase their own tools eventually to suit their preferences.

Just about what Bob had to say. The probationary period is a must. I know places that have a 30 and 90 day. Reviews after both and raise after 90.

Have a print or sketch of something you have recently made and ask them to describe their steps in making it. Ask for both machines and tooling.

Also have something that they can measure. I like a bearing race. Give them a dial caliper, mike, and a snap gage.
JR

Be honest with them.

If the job is 20% machining and 80% other duties as assigned tell them that up front.

If you plan to train them in house, put it in writing stating that you are going to give them A B and C training. That way you when they say "you didn't train me on D E F" you can point to the paper and say "But I only promised A B C."

If the job is just for a few weeks make sure they understand that up front so they don't settle in make themselves at home only to be shown the door when the term is up.

In short, treat them exactly how you would want to be treated during the interview. Make no promises unless you intend to keep them, and don't overplay the job to attract them... in the end both of those will result in turnover and unhappy ex-employees.

I can cite dozens of examples from over the years, and the whole "salesman approach" to hiring a worker has soured me to working "for other people." Had they been 100% honest with me rather than play games... well maybe life would have turned out differently for me.

HONESTY, it gives surprisingly good results.

Thanks, there are some very good ideas here. Most of this I'll have to play by ear I guess.

crashtestdummy said:

It looks like I will be in charge of hiring a new employee where I work. It will be mostly machinist work, but possibly some other fabrication work also. My main concern is about how many personal tools I can expect someone to have. Personally I feel that if you don't have any tools you are willing to use, you're not taking your profession very seriously. However, I have been told of situations where workers weren't allowed to have any personal tools.

What other traits should I be looking for? Red flags I should avoid?

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I think that really depends on what sort of company you have...In my opinion if your a jobshop or a small jack of all trades shop, the company should supply everything for whoever has to make whatever the "co" decided needs making. This means the "machinist/fabricator" walks in and provides the labor.. you supply every tool meaning EVERY TOOL... from a drill bit to carbide insert to the milling cuter to the bolts required to hold the part on the table... to the measuring tools... EVERYTHING...he might have his own tape measure.

If your a Tool&Die Shop, your probly going to find someone with a box of measuring tools, and this fellow would not even walk into the shop I described above.

If your a CNC shop... he needs nothing... just show up for work.

So what kind of shop do you have? and how much experience must this new employee have?

Ask them to bring in parts or pictures of stuff they've made. Doesn't even have to be machined parts, could be a hot rod or something that shows they give a crap. A lot of guys suck at resumes and interviews, but you can get a good idea if they know anything from seeing what they've made.

You can also show them examples of your parts and ask how they might go about making them.

Bobw said:

One VERY important thing. Make sure you hire them with a probationary period, and DO NOT be afraid to use it. When I worked in a non related field, we went through on average 4 to 5 people to get one that fit in and worked well.

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Ditto. Be heartless about letting someone inappropriate go. #1 bad hiring practice is keeping the wrong ones. To the union types out there, that does NOT mean not giving them a chance, it means making room for the right employee to come in and not dragging the whole enterprise down because you made a mistake or got fooled. People who know what they are doing, preach 'hire slowly and fire quickly'

I require an entry level person to have his own GOOD QUALITY pair of calipers. If they won't invest in them, he won't invest anything in his job, plus calipers are too easy to mistreat.

The 2 most revealing questions I ask are 1.- how do you react when something goes wrong, or someone refuses your request, and 2 - What would you be doing if money and time were no object? If they answer 2 with something like Traveling around the world or Living at the beach they probably won't be the guy who wants to work overtime or go the extra inch when needed. If he says building furniture or building custom guns or something like that, you might have a real potential star on your hands.

Gary E said:

I think that really depends on what sort of company you have...In my opinion if your a jobshop or a small jack of all trades shop, the company should supply everything for whoever has to make whatever the "co" decided needs making. This means the "machinist/fabricator" walks in and provides the labor.. you supply every tool meaning EVERY TOOL... from a drill bit to carbide insert to the milling cuter to the bolts required to hold the part on the table... to the measuring tools... EVERYTHING...he might have his own tape measure.

If your a Tool&Die Shop, your probly going to find someone with a box of measuring tools, and this fellow would not even walk into the shop I described above.

If your a CNC shop... he needs nothing... just show up for work.

So what kind of shop do you have? and how much experience must this new employee have?

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We are an R&D shop supporting a manufacturing facility. I do everything from CNC, manual maching, welding (TIG, MIG, OXY and plastic), plastic fabrication, maintenance of existing machines and designing new machines in Inventor and Autocad. I can't expect a person to have all the tools needed, but I'm not willing to have them "borrow" mine all of the time. Any consumable tools would certainly be provided. Maybe I have a naive belief that a skilled tradesmen should possess their own tools.

crashtestdummy said:

We are an R&D shop supporting a manufacturing facility. I do everything from CNC, manual maching, welding (TIG, MIG, OXY and plastic), plastic fabrication, maintenance of existing machines and designing new machines in Inventor and Autocad. I can't expect a person to have all the tools needed, but I'm not willing to have them "borrow" mine all of the time. Any consumable tools would certainly be provided. Maybe I have a naive belief that a skilled tradesmen should possess their own tools.

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With that additional info, I'd sugest your maybe looking for that Tool&Die Maker or someone close to that catagory...

By the way, how many personal "tools" does a surgeon or a nurse take into the Hospitals operating room?

Gary E said:

With that additional info, I'd sugest your maybe looking for that Tool&Die Maker or someone close to that catagory...

By the way, how many personal "tools" does a surgeon or a nurse take into the Hospitals operating room?

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Depends on the surgery, where my mother works they have a lot of doctors that use the facility regularly and they are assigned blocks of time to fill with patients. Many of these Doctors have there own instruments that they leave at the facility. However this requires a great deal of trust and you are correct. Most hospitals have the basics already available.

As a former employee I was always leery of having my own tools at the shop. Never quite sure when your employer might say that wrench in your box was one of the companies. I never actually had that happen and I preferred to have my own tools but unless your company has very good written policies. I wouldnt expect a new hire to bring more than the basics, even if he had every tool and gizmo.

Charles

a few points

John & Mudd have offered two excellent points on screening applicants regarding examples of craft and core goals. Have found the best at something always had a burning passion for what they did. Always more then just a job.

I like to hand applicants a complicated, manufacturing drawing. Perhaps one where the blank is an investment casting with geometric form control and projected, true position tolerances. Ask them to chronicle in exact order how they would machine the part including optimum raw material configuration.

Don't be so concerned with the guy that gets stumped and is humble about it. But cut the interview short as soon as the BS starts. Amazing what some fools will profess to create a façade.

To answer your direct question, I don't feel it's unreasonable to expect a machinist to have their own tool box, 6" scale, 1" mic, 6" caliper, tap wrench, edge finder, mag base, .0005 test indicator, screw drivers, hex keys, and Machinery's Handbook. We absolutely forbid personal, perishable tools, i.e. taps, dies, and end mills. Have seen too many oversize 3B threaded holes done with hardware store taps.

May find myself in Southern Utah someday looking to relocate.

Gary E said:

By the way, how many personal "tools" does a surgeon or a nurse take into the Hospitals operating room?

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I don't feel that is a valid comparison. But I do believe that most nurses would own their own stethoscope.

Maybe this is more of a regional issue. I have needed to use tools at every job I've had. Only one of those jobs had everything I needed, other than a tape measure.

10 fingers said:

To answer your direct question, I don't feel it's unreasonable to expect a machinist to have their own tool box, 6" scale, 1" mic, 6" caliper, tap wrench, edge finder, mag base, .0005 test indicator, screw drivers, hex keys, and Machinery's Handbook.

May find myself in Southern Utah someday looking to relocate.

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Those are the basic tools I would personally expect a serious applicant to have.

As for Southern Utah, I moved here (from Northern Utah) 13 years ago and I very much enjoy it here, especially the outdoors.

If I am going to be spinning knobs on the machine and making measurements I prefer to have my own tools rather than a shared tool that could have been tampered with between shifts, damaged... or otherwise prove inaccurate. My tools my responsiblity I know they are accurate and I know they work right because I take care of them.

Never been an issue at any of the jobs I've held. All of them let me bring my own measurement tools, most "certified" them with their in-house system and that was that.

I have seen it work both ways with tools. I supply all the tools here. Known shops that required employees to have a basic tool kit because they got tired of losing tools.

I do a written job description and a written checklist. I write down everything I think I might want ask them.

What is shown below are some general areas that I have found really helpful. I do separate sections for job specific tasks.

If I have a checklist I remember to ask them.

Asking if I can do a background check can really bring out some surprising information. I always add that it will only be done by a professional agency with the applicants signed permission.

“Answers questions asked” and other communication is really important for me.

I have a strong tendency to trust people and that is not always a good idea when interviewing.



Hiring checklist

Interview
first impression
impression after 30 minutes
Do you remember the ad.
This is a very important, demanding position.
How good are you at making changes?
What did you achieve over and above your job requirements on your last job?
initiative
impact
change

Performance traits
initiative
competence
hard work

work history
why leaving current job
pattern of success
salary history
liked jobs
any gaps - why
references available

Personal
ethics
integrity
responsibility
ambitions
professional appearance
intelligence
personality
friendly
poised
will stay in area

communication
answers questions asked
volunteers information
clear voice
takes things literally
seems open
seems friendly
talks openly and freely

Background
driving
criminal
credit
places of employment
places of residence

Back when I left trade school (and went looking for a regular job) I had my Dad's, and in a few cases, my Granddad's tools.

The shop Craftmaster that hired me, during the interview, asked me:
Q: Tell me what regular measuring tools do you have?
A: Standard calipers, inside, outside, and hermaphrodite
A: etc., etc. then he interrupted me...

Q: What precision tools do you own?
A: B&S 1" mic, 2" mic, Lufkin 3 and 4" mics
Also 6" B&S vernier

His next question:
Q: How do you know they are accurate?
A: I also own a B&S 1" gage block...

He stopped the questions and handed me a print and a piece of brass and asked me to machine to print.

He offered me a 90-day trial period, with reviews at 30 and 60 days.
I worked for him until I went into the Navy a year later.

One comment if I may...NEVER offer a "permanent" position after whatever trial period you require.

There are Standard positions and
there are Temporary positions.

Except for the Owner, there are NO "permanent" positions.

Good Luck!

Stan Db

By the way, how many personal "tools" does a surgeon or a nurse take into the Hospitals operating room?

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When I was in the local ER to have a hand stitched up, the PA had her own surgical loupes and a few other tools. I consider calipers, scale, 1-3" mics, etc just as personal.