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  1. #21
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    OT:

    I make a lot of fun of south bend lathes, but I will say, I have seen some pretty nice work done on them. Back in the 80's I worked in a lab with several very beat 10 inch SB from the 40's. A semi retired fellow square head by the name of Ansgar Askildsen worked part time and would only work on the most beat machines.
    Everything he made was artwork, and fast. That is back when men were men and machinists were machinists. I dream of being half the machinist he was.

    AS a OT to an OT, one day as part of a story I cannot recall the gist of, he mentioned that when he was in the merchant marine his ship was held by the Germans, and he said, 'someone told us we should leave, so we left'.

    The engineer who overheard the conversation took me aside and told me a version that was more accurate. Apparently they got the guards drunk,stole the launch and sailed it across the Mediterranean!

    >>
    4) Regina (& Langanger)

    According to a letter of the Norwegian master written in 1941 to the French autorities, when the French interned the ship in Bone in 1940 (no date given), they took away parts of the engine to ensure that the ship will not flee.

    On 3/May/1941, seven crew members of the Regina left the ship with its motorboat, leaving behind a letter saying they will join the London Norwegian Government’s Navy.
    The seven men are listed as ;
    2nd officer Magnus Nygaard
    3rd officer Ansgar Askildsen
    3rd engineer Viggo Kristensen
    able seaman Johan Jakobsen
    boatswain Knut Knudsen
    ordinary seaman Wiliam Markant
    ordinary seaman Runar Johansen
    (source is a letter of the Norwegian master asking for a new motorboat, written in English, so probably by the Master himself)
    Warsailors.com :: Ship Forum :: French Archives visit (1) : Norwegian ships

    <<

    anyway always what i am reminded of when I think of working on a South Bend

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  3. #22
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    I wouldn't group SB in the same category as the import stuff, but I do agree that harry-home-shop hacks, while they might "get-er-done" and do so on a budget, don't belong on a "professional" site. It has nothing to do with if the posters status as a pro or a hobbyist, it has to do with the level of quality and reliability that this site promotes.

    Every now and then stuff pops up, and I think there's some room for humor and understanding that we all need to get-by sometimes, but IMO the line in the sand is the difference between seeing in someone's photo that they happen to be using a treadmill motor to run a Monarch lathe or them even just mentioning it in a post that that's how they get-by, and that same someone hijacking a thread or starting a "this is how you fix your Monarch" thread.

    I like watching for new threads across the whole site, but I have to remember that different sub forums operate differently and IMO the issue is more in the realm of the sub forums than the whole site. The entire site has the same basic standards, but certain topics and standards are less policed in different forums, if policed at all. If a particular sub-forum isn't being modded how we like, IMO it's better to hassle the mods and the site-owner, but be careful, you might end up with a new job.

    I like the antique forum as I think there's a lot to learn from history, and IMO age alone has zero bearing on the usefulness or practicality of something, but I'm also not trolling the cnc forum about how those guys need to get off their high horses and run a jig-borer like a real machinist .

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    I do agree with the rules and efforts to maintain this place as a professional forum. I do agree that hobbyists are better off elsewhere.

    However, there is definitely a sub-demographic who are green and perhaps can't afford real equipment yet, but who are trying to do this for a living, and are deserving of and would benefit from our collective advice.

    Maybe a "Beginners" sub forum would be a fair compromise. There people could ask the basic questions, and those who cared to could answer.
    You may be on to something with the beginners section!

    Quote Originally Posted by M.B. Naegle View Post
    I wouldn't group SB in the same category as the import stuff, but I do agree that harry-home-shop hacks, while they might "get-er-done" and do so on a budget, don't belong on a "professional" site. It has nothing to do with if the posters status as a pro or a hobbyist, it has to do with the level of quality and reliability that this site promotes.

    Every now and then stuff pops up, and I think there's some room for humor and understanding that we all need to get-by sometimes, but IMO the line in the sand is the difference between seeing in someone's photo that they happen to be using a treadmill motor to run a Monarch lathe or them even just mentioning it in a post that that's how they get-by, and that same someone hijacking a thread or starting a "this is how you fix your Monarch" thread.

    I like watching for new threads across the whole site, but I have to remember that different sub forums operate differently and IMO the issue is more in the realm of the sub forums than the whole site. The entire site has the same basic standards, but certain topics and standards are less policed in different forums, if policed at all. If a particular sub-forum isn't being modded how we like, IMO it's better to hassle the mods and the site-owner, but be careful, you might end up with a new job.

    I like the antique forum as I think there's a lot to learn from history, and IMO age alone has zero bearing on the usefulness or practicality of something, but I'm also not trolling the cnc forum about how those guys need to get off their high horses and run a jig-borer like a real machinist .
    Pffft jig borer that's like using a fly cutter...what is it 1965?

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    I'd like to suggest it may be time to draw the line on these southbend posts. These are hobbiests with junk machines asking beginner questions on how to use these decrepit and sometimes dangerous antiques to do actual work.

    The latest one on the site has a clothing belt and a wooden pully, and the guy is thrilled about this.

    I'm all for everyone to use this great site but it seems like everyday there's another thread popping up. Might as well let jet and grizzly threads fly too.

    Just something I've been thinking of the past few weeks.
    Why do these type of threads bother you so much that you had to create your own thread? I don't think anyone is forcing you to read the hobbiests threads yet I keep seeing certain members creating these type of threads about them. I would think everyone on this site was at the same level as the beginners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    Why do these type of threads bother you so much that you had to create your own thread? I don't think anyone is forcing you to read the hobbiests threads yet I keep seeing certain members creating these type of threads about them. I would think everyone on this site was at the same level as the beginners.
    Why does this thread bother you so much that you had to make a post in it?

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    Why does this thread bother you so much that you had to make a post in it?
    It doesn't bother me but more curious on why it bothers you so much.

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    It doesn't bother me but more curious on why it bothers you so much.
    It's the machine not the person with the machine.

  11. #28
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    This thread does not bother me, and I will not make a post in it to say so.

  12. #29
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    I think this subject has been beat to death. This is unsolvable. I mean how do you define the word Hobbyist? My half million dollar shop has one customer.......me. I guess by that definition, I'm a hobbyist, but I not only have more equipment than many professional job shops, I also have the skill sets to go with professional. In my opinion the rules that exist are pretty darn good as they are. The problem is that many do not follow them. If, for instance, the rule on meaningful titles were followed, it would allow the thread reader to skip those amateurish, beginner threads very easily, if desired. I have also noticed that the number one violator of this rule is the beginners on this site, not the experienced site user. This abuse is very irritating to me and many others I suspect. I frequent this site several times during the day, 7 days a week. I filter these threads by the titles. If a title has no interest to me, I wish to skip it. Enforcing the meaningful title rule benefits everybody.

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  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Wo View Post
    Then how does a hobbyist get advice from someone who actually knows what they're talking about? I don't want advice from people as ignorant as I am.
    I would agree that the advice on many of the "hobbyist" forums is less than stellar. I do frequent them from time to time and must say some of the questions scare me, but not nearly as much as some of the answers.

    I've been here for a while and don't remember the exact sequence of joining the group. On many boards the applicant must sign off as to having read and understood the rules before they are allowed access. On this particular board the "Machinery Discussion Rules" are only mentioned in a "sticky" topic in standard font, and only in the "General" forum. There are a few "Guidelines" associated with the Antique Machinery and History" forum, and a couple other forums.

    The rules don't seem consistent from forum to forum. It would be much easier for newcomers to understand and abide by the rules if they knew them from the moment they joined, and they were consistent across the board. Maybe making the rules to all forums available, and acknowledgment as to having read them prior to acceptance would help eliminate problems.


    At the very least I would think that since conversation surrounding "hobbyist" brands and types of machinery is discouraged on the "General" board those rules should be at the top of the list, and displayed in bold type.

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  16. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    I think this subject has been beat to death. This is unsolvable. I mean how do you define the word Hobbyist? My half million dollar shop has one customer.......me. I guess by that definition, I'm a hobbyist, but I not only have more equipment than many professional job shops, I also have the skill sets to go with professional. In my opinion the rules that exist are pretty darn good as they are. The problem is that many do not follow them. If, for instance, the rule on meaningful titles were followed, it would allow the thread reader to skip those amateurish, beginner threads very easily, if desired. I have also noticed that the number one violator of this rule is the beginners on this site, not the experienced site user. This abuse is very irritating to me and many others I suspect. I frequent this site several times during the day, 7 days a week. I filter these threads by the titles. If a title has no interest to me, I wish to skip it. Enforcing the meaningful title rule benefits everybody.
    This thread has nothing to do with hobbiests but their machines. Why is a clapped out shitbox lathe allowed here, historical or not. I get there's a section dedicated to them, that's fine but I don't think it was meant for joe blow off the street oh so excited that he just got his first lathe and can't wait to do a full restoration on it so he can use it to make whatever fuckwits like him make with fully restored southbend 9" lathes.

    Then proceeds to show something with rediculous wear, 4 different colors, no thread plates, handles are bent broke or missing and the tailstock is off a completely different lathe.

    (Disclaimer: not sure if all that ever happened at once)

    Someone suggested a beginners forum, I think that's a great idea.

  17. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    This thread has nothing to do with hobbiests but their machines. Why is a clapped out shitbox lathe allowed here, historical or not. I get there's a section dedicated to them, that's fine but I don't think it was meant for joe blow off the street oh so excited that he just got his first lathe and can't wait to do a full restoration on it so he can use it to make whatever fuckwits like him make with fully restored southbend 9" lathes.

    Then proceeds to show something with rediculous wear, 4 different colors, no thread plates, handles are bent broke or missing and the tailstock is off a completely different lathe.

    (Disclaimer: not sure if all that ever happened at once)

    Someone suggested a beginners forum, I think that's a great idea.
    This is the part where I don't understand why you got so upset, he said he was new, he said he had just purchased a lathe, and he asked for help, and he was in the SB forum. Instead of going off on him, you could have suggested he get a new pulley and some covers for the gears. I will agree that that size machine does not scream professional, but there is a Logan 9x18 in my shop that would fall into the same category. An SB has never graced my shop, first one I ever used was such a pos it colored my opinion of them for decades, had no choice but to use an SB a few years ago and it changed my mind.

    As mentioned we all started somewhere and someone put up with our stupid questions, if we can, I think we should help the new people get started. I do not know if it is a product of YT or what, but a lot of people seem to be interested in machining as a hobby, if you had not noticed they start threads here daily, and I don't think that trend is going to end soon.

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  19. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    This is the part where I don't understand why you got so upset, he said he was new, he said he had just purchased a lathe, and he asked for help, and he was in the SB forum. Instead of going off on him, you could have suggested he get a new pulley and some covers for the gears. I will agree that that size machine does not scream professional, but there is a Logan 9x18 in my shop that would fall into the same category. An SB has never graced my shop, first one I ever used was such a pos it colored my opinion of them for decades, had no choice but to use an SB a few years ago and it changed my mind.

    As mentioned we all started somewhere and someone put up with our stupid questions, if we can, I think we should help the new people get started. I do not know if it is a product of YT or what, but a lot of people seem to be interested in machining as a hobby, if you had not noticed they start threads here daily, and I don't think that trend is going to end soon.
    Yeah I noticed, I have 0 issue with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    It's the machine not the person with the machine.
    So what did one do to you?
    Catch yer little pinky in it during your apprenticeship and bruise your fingernail?

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  22. #35
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    Everyone starts out as a novice.

    I vividly remember cutting classes in high school to take a long bus trip from NJ into NYC to attend (if memory serves), the National Design Engineering Show. I'm still grateful for the people there who took a 16 year old kid seriously.

    And had PM existed 50+ years ago, my first lathe might not have a Craftsman/Atlas beat to death by an armature shop before it became all that I could afford as a first metal lathe.

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  24. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    This thread has nothing to do with hobbiests but their machines. Why is a clapped out shitbox lathe allowed here, historical or not. I get there's a section dedicated to them, that's fine but I don't think it was meant for joe blow off the street oh so excited that he just got his first lathe and can't wait to do a full restoration on it so he can use it to make whatever fuckwits like him make with fully restored southbend 9" lathes.

    Then proceeds to show something with rediculous wear, 4 different colors, no thread plates, handles are bent broke or missing and the tailstock is off a completely different lathe.

    (Disclaimer: not sure if all that ever happened at once)

    Someone suggested a beginners forum, I think that's a great idea.
    The first question that comes to mind from your response is "Why do you give a shit?" Don't read the SB threads. I actually have a long bed 10K that I bought new. I use it all the time even though I have larger machines just as well equipped. They have their place, even in professional shops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    So what did one do to you?
    Catch yer little pinky in it during your apprenticeship and bruise your fingernail?
    The pull to go into back gear was always in the wrong spot lol.

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    This entire thread belongs in the SB forum. Or maybe just lock it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    This entire thread belongs in the SB forum. Or maybe just lock it.
    Well I mean why would it go there. I'm surprised it hasn't been yet lol

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    OK, I will admit to having a shop in my garage and in that shop I have a SB-9. I have also had shops at work. I am from both worlds. I also try to keep my questions here on serious matters that do require more than a day or two of experience in machining to answer. And I appreciate the answers that are given. Thank you all.

    But, the line just has to be drawn somewhere. I have visited professional, money making shops where the equipment being used on a daily basis was a lot older and in a lot worse condition than my somewhat worn SB-9 or any of the Asian imports that I have seen and used over the years. And that well worn equipment that I have seen was, most often, US made. Asian import machines, like lathes and mills, may have many well known and frequently discussed problems, but I would put a new or fairly new import up against many of those older and worn out US made machines any day. Many of those shop owners, FROM A PROFESSIONAL, MONEY MAKING point of view, decline to update their equipment. Just like they don't want to spend money to heat a freezing shop in the winter or cool it in the summer. Cheap bas*****? Perhaps. Or perhaps the traffic just will not bear the expense. So, should we not discuss a problem that could be easily solved by the addition of a proper shop heater? I personally think that would make more sense than not discussing some of the more advanced problems just because they are occurring on an imported machine. But, that's me and I am not the board owner or moderator.

    And a modern, US made (if you can find one) tool room lathe would have much the same features as my SB-9 or a SB Heavy 10. Depending on size, it may be heavier. It may be capable of heavier cuts. But they work in exactly the same manner. Turn the work. Scrape off the chips. Cut the threads. Bore down the center. Etc.

    I have always felt that it is the man, not the machine. There should be places for rank beginners and, guess what, there are. I was one once but I think I have progressed beyond that point. Go ahead, fire away. I asked for it and can take it.

    I think that the dividing line should have more to do with the experience of the man and less with the country of origin of the equipment. To me, professional means having to do with a profession where a person makes money. I do not care what equipment that he or she uses to make that money.

    Weather I personally like them or not, I do respect and support the posting guidelines here. When I see a post that obviously violates them, I try to point out those guidlines and guide the poster, usually a new guy, to a more appropriate BB where he can still get answers. I have done this dozens of times. And, if I have time, I also try to give a little guidance on the question so you busy, professional guys do not need to. I worked in many situations and realize that your time is valuable. Often this guidance is in a PM so as not to draw more attention to the thread.

    If you do not like answering questions on SB or any other particular brands of equipment, I say, JUST DON'T. Simpy stop reading them and go on with activities that help you. No one is forcing you to either read or answer any posts.

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