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How cold can you run machinery?

Ultradog MN

Ultradog MN

Cast Iron
Joined
Jun 14, 2020
Winter is about to set in here. I won't have heat in my shop for another year.
It was about 32 ° f yesterday morning and I was facing off the chamfer on some big lug nuts in the lathe.
It is a gear head. Has an oil pump in the head stock. I watched the drip in the sight glass and the rate seemed normal.
There is a pump in the apron too and it was keeping the ways nicely oiled as usual.
The motor started just fine and no odd noises there.
But I wondered how cold a guy dared to run an old machine.
I wasn't too concerned about tolerances. Just carving some metal off. About mid range (500) rpms.
I run my old tractors in much colder temps than that with no concern about the gears or moving parts. But what about an old lathe?
Thanks
 
I'd think when things get sluggish, it's too cold. My lathe and MSO work far colder than I'm willing to put up with, but the surface grinder is another story. It's hard to slide the table, my arm gets sore, and I think accuracy suffers below about 45 degrees.
 
Ultradog MN said:
Winter is about to set in here. I won't have heat in my shop for another year.
It was about 32 ° f yesterday morning and I was facing off the chamfer on some big lug nuts in the lathe.
It is a gear head. Has an oil pump in the head stock. I watched the drip in the sight glass and the rate seemed normal.
There is a pump in the apron too and it was keeping the ways nicely oiled as usual.
The motor started just fine and no odd noises there.
But I wondered how cold a guy dared to run an old machine.
I wasn't too concerned about tolerances. Just carving some metal off. About mid range (500) rpms.
I run my old tractors in much colder temps than that with no concern about the gears or moving parts. But what about an old lathe?
Click to expand...

In Minnesota, I hear that automobile engines come with headbolt heaters, and many parking meters have AC power outlets for same. So, can the lathe be equipped with a headbolt heater or the like?

 
Joe Gwinn said:


In Minnesota, I hear that automobile engines come with headbolt heaters, and many parking meters have AC power outlets for same. So, can the lathe be equipped with a headbolt heater or the like?
Click to expand...
I didn't know that headbolts need heating ????

To the OP: Try a 100 watt old school bulb under the headstcok.
 
Funny I just did some tests with jet turbine oil for my R/C boats (similar to hydraulic oils), below 0C or so it started to come out of solution. Not sure if that would bother pure oil or not.
 
I've succeeded down to 20 degrees, but at 15 degrees there's no hope. At 15 degrees hydraulic pump motors overload and burn up, you need stock tank heaters in the coolant sumps below freezing, but when it gets to about 15 the coolant will come out and form a big snow cone on the table or lathe turret.
 
Folks have hashed out the best way to start a cold engine on the tractor boards I hang out on.
I think the best way is with a coolant heater.
Best is a block heater that replaces a frost plug.
Second best is with an inline coolant heater in the lower radiator hose. Cold temps reduce the volatility if the fuel/air mixture. Warming the coolant warms the combustion chamber and increases volatility.
Used to be that cold oil was like molasses but modern multiweight oils have mostly solved that issue for the bottom end.
So warm the combustion chambers for best effect.

Combustian and volatility doesn't pertain to an old lathe of course.
So heating the headstock and oil is the ticket.
I like the idea of a 100 w bulb - or two - left overnight. Would be easy to do in the motor compartment/pedistal. Even throw a couple of moving blankets over it.
I don't plan on running this thing much in those cold temps but 30 degrees is still "working weather" in these parts so if I had to do some rough turning I could.
Thanks to all for the replies and ideas.
 
I Have run bearing grinder spindles at zero (Fehenheight). but jog start them a good number of times (perhaps 5+) before running at 3600 or so .. high-speed spindles I would set a light bulb overnight to warm them up. Good to Visqueen tarp a machine left over winter to keep dew off the machine at each warm-up.
Tarping a machine good to not tarp all the way down to the ground/floor and open any doors (a crack) to have some dry air circulation under the tarp.,
 
They make electrically heated rocks for snakes and lizards. In my shop 45F is when condensation can start on cold iron. That is as cold as it gets here inside. I have some goldenrod heaters triggered to come on at about 50F.
Bill D
 
Bill D said:
They make electrically heated rocks for snakes and lizards. In my shop 45F is when condensation can start on cold iron. That is as cold as it gets here inside. I have some goldenrod heaters triggered to come on at about 50F.
Bill D
Click to expand...

Condensation buildup is my major concern below ~40-50F, but I get sluggish when it's below 50 in the shop...

Dog.JPG
 
Joe Gwinn said:
In Minnesota, I hear that automobile engines come with headbolt heaters, and many parking meters have AC power outlets for same.
Click to expand...

Head bolt heaters, no. Block heaters, yes. Most people don't have them but they are out there.

Never seen a parking meter with a free energy dispenser. EV chargers yes, but those aren't free.

Most of the time you're fine as long as you run the right weight of oil for the weather and change batteries once in a while. Carrying jumper cables and backing into parking spaces is advisable on the bitter days. If the starter bogs when cranking then lighter oil is called for. Bogging means there's caramel candy instead of lube oil inside the engine.

You really can hear and feel how thick or thin the oil becomes at different temperatures. Especially in old clunkers whose transmissions don't like to lock up. Won't get hardly any power through the torque converters in those until they warm up. Slip city for the first 3 or 4 minutes of driving.

Back on topic;

On plain bearing cone pulley lathes, disengage the spindle drive and turn by hand to see how thick the oil is.

On rolling element gear-head lathes, run the oil pump and verify normal oil flow via witness points.

Best judgement applies.

Most oil probably won't become problematic until around 0*F. I don't notice much starter/cold engine bogging with 5W-30 until around -10 to -20*F. Chances are the air will be far too cold for you before it becomes too cold for the oil unless we're talking straight-weight 30+ or something.

 
Ultradog MN said:
Winter is about to set in here. I won't have heat in my shop for another year.
It was about 32 ° f yesterday morning and I was facing off the chamfer on some big lug nuts in the lathe.
It is a gear head. Has an oil pump in the head stock. I watched the drip in the sight glass and the rate seemed normal.
There is a pump in the apron too and it was keeping the ways nicely oiled as usual.
The motor started just fine and no odd noises there.
But I wondered how cold a guy dared to run an old machine.
I wasn't too concerned about tolerances. Just carving some metal off. About mid range (500) rpms.
I run my old tractors in much colder temps than that with no concern about the gears or moving parts. But what about an old lathe?
Thanks
Click to expand...


I don't use my shop daily. So when it's cold I want to heat it fast. I clamp a 500,000 btu propane roofing torch to the work bench and that sucker heats a 20'x30' un-insulated shop in 5 minutes. I run a fan to keep the hot air from collecting up high. That torch is loud like a jet engine. Once the shop is warm I run an electric heater to maintain the temp. If really cold outside I re-run the torch every hour or so.
 
Cole2534 said:
Aquarium heater?

Programmed via Mazatrol
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same. A $20 one lasts a decade in fresh water, 2-8 years in marine, and that's fully submerged. Much longer if you keep the top an inch above the water line. Routinely available in many increments from about 25 W to a few hundred.
As bonus points, they'll turn off somewhere in the low 70's if you set them appropriately, although you will want to keep them submerged or close to it.
 
Just a Sparky said:
Head bolt heaters, no. Block heaters, yes. Most people don't have them but they are out there.

Never seen a parking meter with a free energy dispenser. EV chargers yes, but those aren't free.
Click to expand...

Ive spent some time in ND for work. Some of the hotels I've stayed in had parking lots full of 115 receptacles for block heaters.

Programmed via Mazatrol
 
Years ago I asked here about an "ice lathe" for sale on the bay. It was a lathe designed to turn frozen water with gold chains embedded in it. This allows it to cut nice sharp designs into the gold. Workers fight to clean the chip pan.
Obvious the entire machine and work has to stay belo0w 32F.
Bill D.
 
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