How to do tube rolling on a cable?

dimbmw · Feb 22, 2021

Hi

I am looking for advice.

Tube needs to be rolled so that it crimps the cable watertight.

Here is the picture of how it should look.

I am wondering what kind of equipment can be used for this.

The material of the tube is stainless steel, wall thickness 0.5mm, ID 8mm.

This picture proves that it can be done, but I don't know how.

Also it is a pretty long cable, so it's better if the tool will be spinning around the cable and the cable will remain stationary.

Any ideas please?

Thanks!

thermite · Feb 22, 2021

dimbmw said:
Hi

I am looking for advice.

Tube needs to be rolled so that it crimps the cable watertight.

Here is the picture of how it should look.

I am wondering what kind of equipment can be used for this.

The material of the tube is stainless steel, wall thickness 0.5mm, ID 8mm.

This picture proves that it can be done, but I don't know how.

Also it is a pretty long cable, so it's better if the tool will be spinning around the cable and the cable will remain stationary.

Any ideas please?

Thanks!

Surely you ddin't thing it was done by aliens with weird anal sphincter muscles flown in by starship on contract?

Roll Grooving | RIDGID Tools

They have competition.

Boy do they EVER!

Go ogle sez:

About 10,900,000 results (0.69 seconds)

dimbmw · Feb 22, 2021

thermite said:
Surely you ddin't thing it was done by aliens with weird anal sphincter muscles flown in by starship on contract?

Roll Grooving | RIDGID Tools

They have competition.

Boy do they EVER!

Go ogle sez:

About 10,900,000 results (0.69 seconds)

Well, these you suggested squeeze the pipe between two dies, one with a groove and another one with the ridge. Totally different comparing to what I need. I need the cable to in the tube at the time of grooving.
So ya, aliens with sphincters and spinning butts seem to be more capable of doing it...
The process I need looks more like this I guess (at 0:15) Tube grooving, cutting and chamfering process for conveyor rollers - YouTube

thermite · Feb 22, 2021

dimbmw said:
Well, these you suggested squeeze the pipe between two dies, one with a groove and another one with the ridge. Totally different comparing to what I need.

You mean you don't yet have but a fraction of a klew what you need to do it, just what it LOOKS like, once done?

Those who make the goods used for ages do have. And they PUBLISH.
Read their catalogs. Find the right one. Order it.

ISTR it is a three-point system, not two, deforms as it works, but progressively corrects the deformation as it tightens?

But it "has been a while".

Your need. Old tech, not new. Your fingers doing the walking. It is "out there", probably including hand/power-hydraulic field-portable.

dimbmw · Feb 22, 2021

thermite said:
You mean you don't yet have but a fraction of a klew what you need to do it, just what it LOOKS like, once done?

Those who make the goods used for ages do have. And they PUBLISH.
Read their catalogs. Find the right one. Order it.

ISTR it is a three-point system, not two, deforms as it works, but progressively corrects the deformation as it tightens?

But it "has been a while".

Your need. Old tech, not new. Your fingers doing the walking. It is "out there", probably including hand/power-hydraulic field-portable.

what is ISTR? can you give me the link? sorry I can't find it, but 3-points system sounds like what I need. Thanks!

PS by the way, 9mm OD is a small tube...

awander · Feb 22, 2021

Depending on the size of the cable etc. you may be able to do it with a pipe cutter. just replace the pointy blades with rounded ones.

eKretz · Feb 22, 2021

dimbmw said:
what is ISTR? can you give me the link? sorry I can't find it, but 3-points system sounds like what I need. Thanks!

PS by the way, 9mm OD is a small tube...

I Seem To Remember (or Recall).

thermite · Feb 22, 2021

dimbmw said:
what is ISTR? can you give me the link? sorry I can't find it, but 3-points system sounds like what I need. Thanks!

PS by the way, 9mm OD is a small tube...

Yah, the cable moves a tad, and the wire bundles of rounds naturally hold gaps open.

So I'm not sure how TF you can get a seal "long axis" and internal even if there is an elastomeric liner? Seal from outside to inside is surely do-able, though

As to size?

You've seen the stainless ones used on fiber-optics armour? Whole lot smaller than 9 mm!

I've got some on Keyance right-angle FO prism heads I just now went off and mic'ed for yah.

0.200" to 0.205" OD.

But they are OLD (read relatively big and clumsy) already. And do NOT hold tight to the jacketed FO inside. The reverse. Must flex AND preserve free movement so as not to damage it.

Bound to be Keyance buys that material in, so their source would be the ones doing the forming.

You'll have to search.

Unless a PM'er who uses the technology, recent times, comes by. Could was but it is a "niche" thing, so might be a while, if even "ever".

Limy Sami · Feb 22, 2021

How about 1 of these Imperial Eastman models TC-1000, TC-1010, TC-1020, 312-FC, 227-FA Imperial HI-DUTY TUBE CUTTERS Mfg by Stride Tool Inc. - Newman Tools fitted with a IMP.S76637 Constrictor wheel for producing sweat joints. ..and I know it works on thing gauge stainless

Some pics imperial eastman constrictor wheel - Google Search

dimbmw · Feb 22, 2021

Limy Sami said:
How about 1 of these Imperial Eastman models TC-1000, TC-1010, TC-1020, 312-FC, 227-FA Imperial HI-DUTY TUBE CUTTERS Mfg by Stride Tool Inc. - Newman Tools fitted with a IMP.S76637 Constrictor wheel for producing sweat joints. ..and I know it works on thing gauge stainless

Some pics imperial eastman constrictor wheel - Google Search

Just ordered it to give it a try, thank you very much!

Limy Sami · Feb 22, 2021

You MAY ?????? have to anneal the stainless tube to get a good grip on the wire

thermite · Feb 22, 2021

dimbmw said:
Just ordered it to give it a try, thank you very much!

I've got one fitted that way. used for rolling a 'stop" shoulder into a copper plumbing cut-off to field-fab a seat in a coupler so the tubing only goes in but so far.

It will surely do the rolling of the desired shape.

I seriously doubt it will snug it to a stainless-steel - or any other - wire rope in a waterproof manner, though. You'd need some sort of paste or gel, if not pourable plastic or an elastomer to fill the voids the round wires create.

Even soft Copper can only deform enough to seal if it is composed of uber-fine strands AND resilient-jacketed. See welding cable and "600 pair" telephone cable as was common before Time Division multiplex and newer.

michiganbuck · Feb 22, 2021

OT: why the need for watertight.
That may be a challenge with needing some kind of sealant, not just the crimp/roll.

dimbmw · Feb 22, 2021

thermite said:
I've got one fitted that way. used for rolling a 'stop" shoulder into a copper plumbing cut-off to field-fab a seat in a coupler so the tubing only goes in but so far.

It will surely do the rolling of the desired shape.

I seriously doubt it will snug it to a stainless-steel - or any other - wire rope in a waterproof manner, though. You'd need some sort of paste or gel, if not pourable plastic or an elastomer to fill the voids the round wires create.

Even soft Copper can only deform enough to seal if it is composed of uber-fine strands AND resilient-jacketed. See welding cable and "600 pair" telephone cable as was common before Time Division multiplex and newer.

The sample on the photo with has been tested and holds 10Bar (100 meters of water).

dimbmw · Feb 22, 2021

Limy Sami said:
You MAY ?????? have to anneal the stainless tube to get a good grip on the wire

Hah, I've been looking YouTube videos on annealing while you were writing this message

as I was thinking about making stainless a bit softer to make grooving easier... There will be silicone grommet between the wire and the tube so it should seal it OK. But making SS softer is tempting. Thanks for the great idea!

dimbmw · Feb 22, 2021

michiganbuck said:
OT: why the need for watertight.
That may be a challenge with needing some kind of sealant, not just the crimp/roll.

Going into deep well.

michiganbuck · Feb 22, 2021

Just my home hack idea..but the likes of a 3 jaw chuck in a lathe-like machine with a rolling die/form roller set into each jaw that would be rolling the 3 humps and the two tight groves to a pre-determined diameter...or to an amount of pressure applied.

If it is a catalog product, then better to buy it.

dimbmw · Feb 22, 2021

michiganbuck said:
Just my home hack idea..but the likes of a 3 jaw chuck in a lathe-like machine with a rolling die/form roller set into each jaw that would be rolling the 3 humps and the two tight groves to a pre-determined diameter...or to an amount of pressure applied.

If it is a catalog product, then better to buy it.

Well, I ran FEM simulation and the force required to roll this tube is about 10000N (1 ton), I guess that should be a pretty beefy chuck

But yes, the idea is good. Love this forum!

michiganbuck · Feb 22, 2021

dimbmw said:
Well, I ran FEM simulation and the force required to roll this tube is about 10000N (1 ton), I guess that should be a pretty beefy chuck But yes, the idea is good. Love this forum!

That seems a lot for .02 thick collar. Plus the force need be applied as the chuck/die was turning on the fixed cable.

Mechanical would/might be a super fine pitch scroll to be the closing device so it might be tightened while turning.

One ton would be easily obtained with a 14 or finer screw threads in the likes of a 3 jaw chuck.

Illinoyance · Feb 22, 2021

how about a Nicopress type tool with round dies. HF has a hydraulic tool for for crimping electrical connections. Maybe with special dies it would do the job.

Is that a Flemish eye splice with the thimble holding the ends? If so the thimble adds very little to the strength.

How to do tube rolling on a cable?

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