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How to jelly phosphoric acid

Bill D

Diamond
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
Modesto, CA USA
I know phosphoric acid can be used to neutralize rust on iron. naval jelly is phosphoric acid in a jelled state so it sticks to vertical surfaces. How do they make it into a jelly state. Think I could just add cornstarch or something similar to the acid?
Bill D.
PS does phosphoric acid attack roofing tar? The iron flashing on my roof is not plated, not painted, not easy to replace.
 
اسید فسفریک ایرانی با قیمت و کیفیت عالی.

ROFL!

Leave it to the Mullahs to figure the Kalifphoneyah Soviet Socialist Republic is already part of the hegemon of China and Russia and open to Iranian trade!

Smart folks. Dreadfully insane managerial class = economic marriages made in fantasyland!

Go figure!

"It depends" Sometimes they simply reduce the free hydration level, Bill. Put NOTHING "in". Take water OUT.

Look up "molality".

Acids nor caustics are not necessarily "watery" in purest form Some are more akin to salt, powder, wax, oil, treacle, ice, or soap flakes.

IF. repeat IF, one can keep them dry enough.

As most are highly hygroscopic, industrial storage and shipping is most often done with a certain specified and standardized percentage of solvent - water, usually.

Anything else can be an ephemeral and costly pain in the arse to maintain - goes sideways soon as the container is opened even to "dry" air. Or so one THOUGHT it was! See also "fuming" Nitric acid.

Difference Between Fuming Nitric Acid and Concentrated Nitric Acid | Compare the Difference Between Similar Terms

Less nasty, but still not to be trifled with, crystal-forming or "glacial" Acetic acid vs common white vinegar is another example.

FWIW, Naval Jelly is a nuisance to dilute, but one can do it. I use it that way most of the time.

As to the roof flashing, Use it "fairly strong". Clear it, per directions.

And then.. come back with a much more dilute solution and LEAVE it.

You should get the thin frosty grey of phosphatized Iron. Poor-boy's counterpart to "Bonderizing" as they called it back when the auto industry began to brag about it ages ago.

What is difference between bonderizing & phosphatizing? - FAQ Door Questions - CURRIES, ASSA ABLOY, Hollow, Metal, Steel, Doors, Frames, Energy Efficent, Hurricane, Tornado, Storm

I have half a dozen of those steel fire doors. Either way, if done thin and sparse it clings tightly... and holds paint like a b***dy magnet.

Rustoleum "hammer finish" doesn't even need a primer. Rusty steel beams and lintels I've done that way still look great a dozen years on.
 
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I know phosphoric acid can be used to neutralize rust on iron. naval jelly is phosphoric acid in a jelled state so it sticks to vertical surfaces. How do they make it into a jelly state. Think I could just add cornstarch or something similar to the acid?

PS does phosphoric acid attack roofing tar? The iron flashing on my roof is not plated, not painted, not easy to replace.
In case Bill D still cares .... it's more complicated than just adding cornstarch. There's a few different methods, you can find them on the web, but I found that just brushing on Ospho worked equally well, maybe better. Even on mostly-vertical surfaces. You can buy it at any boaty-ish place, it's not expensive.

About roofing tar, can't say but ospho does not attack Jefferson's Marine Tar, which is a low-temp version you apply melted between the planks on decking. Does not bother iron, only works on rust. It does bleach any wood you spill it on, leaving light-colored areas where it got over-applied.

Time to fix that roof yet ? :D
 
Cornstarch doesn't work too well.

Xanthan gum works better in my experience. start by dissolving the xanthan gum is a small amount of glycerin and when that is complete, mix in the phosphoric acid.
 
Time to fix that roof yet ? :D[/QUOTE]

Ten years latter got a new roof installed they replaced the flashing with new galvanized stuff. I am not happy with how they did it. rather then pull the old step flashing out and use new they cut the stucco off for 6" and put on one piece new flashing and then glopped caulk over the whole bottom edge. When that caulk fails the roof will leak.
Bil lD
 
Gua gum is similar to Xanthan gum. I think both are used in cooking. You can see these in the ingredients section on packaged foods. Used to thicken stuff.
 
Time to fix that roof yet ? :D

Ten years latter got a new roof installed they replaced the flashing with new galvanized stuff. I am not happy with how they did it. rather then pull the old step flashing out and use new they cut the stucco off for 6" and put on one piece new flashing and then glopped caulk over the whole bottom edge. When that caulk fails the roof will leak.
Bil lD

So how will using Phosphoric acid fix the flashing install ?.....:crazy:
 
Re flashing. We put a new very expensive roof on the cottage up north. The roof was nasty but the only place it actually leaked was at the chimney flashing. I told him I wanted the flashing cut into the masonry but instead he glopped on about a half inch of gooey roof patch. I complained and he insisted that this was the way uts done now. He insisted he will back it up. But of course in 5 years when it starts to leak he will be long gone
 
i wonder about guar/xantan gum: doesnt that only work in an aqueous solution? what does it do in pure acid?
 
Re flashing. We put a new very expensive roof on the cottage up north. The roof was nasty but the only place it actually leaked was at the chimney flashing. I told him I wanted the flashing cut into the masonry but instead he glopped on about a half inch of gooey roof patch. I complained and he insisted that this was the way uts done now. He insisted he will back it up. But of course in 5 years when it starts to leak he will be long gone

We had our roof redone not too long ago and before the roofers came I had a mason re-point the chimney and make sure the (lead) flashing was properly mortared in.

Roofers almost invariably will use sealant although the proper stuff is something like a Geocel polyurethane.
 
So how will using Phosphoric acid fix the flashing install ?.....:crazy:

The rusty flashing was ripped off and replaced with new stuff which is galvanized, not bare steel. I would expect the metal to last another 70 years before it needs to be replaced. Less then that for the caulking design they used. I prefer gravity for water proofing. Gravity is more reliable and seldom fails even as the work gets older.
Bill D
 
i wonder about guar/xantan gum: doesnt that only work in an aqueous solution? what does it do in pure acid?


You tend to use about 10% phosphoric acid concentration for derusting. The xanthan gum, at least, is quite resistant to acids and alkalis. Corn starch didn't work all that well in the acid when I tried to make homemade 'naval jelly' with it.

PS:- Is lead flashing available in the US?
 
Wouldn't it be easier, and probably cheaper, to just use something commercially available?

evapo-rust-paint-strippers-removers-er088-64_1000.jpg


-Ron
 
Interesting. I've never seen Evaporust in a gel form. But too many negative Amazon reviews don't encourage me to try it. People complain that it doesn't look like a gel. More like a partially dried rubber contact cement that is very hard to apply. As one respondent eloquently put it "More like your sick grand-grandpa's snot vs a clear gel".:)
Many positive review for the item actually belong to the liquid form of Evaporust (which deserves to be prized IMO).
 
Interesting. I've never seen Evaporust in a gel form. But too many negative Amazon reviews don't encourage me to try it. People complain that it doesn't look like a gel. More like a partially dried rubber contact cement that is very hard to apply. As one respondent eloquently put it "More like your sick grand-grandpa's snot vs a clear gel".:)
Many positive review for the item actually belong to the liquid form of Evaporust (which deserves to be prized IMO).


That was just one example. There is always the old, tried and true Naval Jelly - https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-Nava...ywords=gel+rust+remover&qid=1601428697&sr=8-5

or any number of other products - https://www.amazon.com/gel-rust-remover/s?k=gel+rust+remover

I haven't tried the Evaporust Gel, but I too am enamored with their liquid product. It's saved me huge amounts of time.

-Ron
 








 
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