How are you lifting 4th in and out of machine?
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  1. #1
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    Default How are you lifting 4th in and out of machine?

    I know I can hack down a engine hoist but looking for other ideas or best bang for the buck.

    Machine is a Haas VF2SSYT HRC210 4th axis.

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    we use a modified die cart to slide them in and out through the side window.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djstorm100 View Post
    I know I can hack down a engine hoist but looking for other ideas or best bang for the buck.

    Machine is a Haas VF2SSYT HRC210 4th axis.
    .
    how much it weighs ? ergo tool balance you pull down and connect and it then pulls up 20 to 200lbs, that way you can lift easier cause balance is helping, that is if you cannot use a chainfall or hoist but prefer the steady pull of a balancer
    .
    Tool Balancers, Load Balancers and Spring Balancers

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    Yes, I'm doing this on a somewhat similar combo to what you have. Both older, but a VF-5 and HRT210 RT.

    In my case, I'm using a small swivel crane that I've mounted to a heavy-duty rolling cart, but in such a ghetto fashion that I won't post pictures here. It works, but is really about 5" too tall, so I have to do more jockeying to get the machine in and out than I'd like. A near term project will be to shorten the mount to make that easier.

    I have also at times mounted a "diving board" to the right end of the table that just uses a few inches of the table itself for bolting down, but extends further to the right to take the RT and keep it inside the enclosure. This does put a little more strain on the machine from the cantilevered load, so I prefer a full removal.

    I'm coming in through the right side window of the VF-5, if you're coming through the front doors you've got a lot more room.

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    I've been using my 1 ton Mahaffy stacker (pallet forks) for years. I have my Haas raised up with the feet sitting on 2x8's so that there is enough room beneath the sheet metal for the 4" high outriggers to slip underneath. I can load stuff from the front or the end. Works well, without undue interference that I think an engine hoist would have and be clumsy as hell.

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    I will be watching this thread carefully. I need something myself. I have been thinking about a cart that holds three devices in rotating fashion and has either a bridge for sliding them or some kind of crane. If you have them, please post photos.

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    Thanks guys, keep the ideas coming.


    This is what originally caught my eye. They are about 1900-2200 depending on option.


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    That's roughly what I'm using, just not as posh. I keep a fair amount of weight on the cart to ensure no tipping over, something you definitely want to pay attention to when lifting ~180lbs.

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    I went through this a year or so back, and agonized over this as ancillary concern. The primary was getting heavy work in and out of the machine, but the Fourth Axis is very closely related.


    In the end, ( and all this time later ) I am still very pleased with what I ended up doing. It was inexpensive and simple. I used Unistrut and the appropriate hangers and trolley to create a hoist run. In fact, we just two weeks ago purchased more hangers and a curved section of Unistrut to mate up to the existing run so that we can also use it for the turning center's chucks.

    When we need to, we use a magnet on the end for large steel plates and work pieces. The trolley rated for 600 pounds, and bone simple to use. We love it.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Djstorm100 View Post
    Thanks guys, keep the ideas coming.


    This is what originally caught my eye. They are about 1900-2200 depending on option.


    I have one of those on a homegrown cart. It's only good for about 200 lbs regardless of what the mfgr says. My 4th is 600 lbs, we've been using a forklift.

    I've been considering building something like this.

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    Bang for the buck to get fourth temporarily off your table.

    piece of 1/2 thk aluminum sheet 1'x2'~ about

    one lifting eye

    one chainfall from princess auto

    mount chainfall inside the enclosure of your machine in the extreme corner but still over your table strokes.
    Aluminum sheet reinforces top of the enclosure, goes on outside.

    When you need the fourth off jog over under the hoist and pick it off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djstorm100 View Post
    Thanks guys, keep the ideas coming.


    This is what originally caught my eye. They are about 1900-2200 depending on option.

    I use this model SkyHook at work to lift a HRT210 out of our Haas TM2P plus other fixtures around the shop.....

    Portable Jib Crane|Portable Lifting Cranes

    Kevin

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    vf2ss are pretty narrow on the front doors and low to the ground.
    Zahnrad has about the best option.
    I use 2'x4' steel carts we made years ago, they happen to be with in 1" of the height of the table. I put one corner at the edge of the door and slide it over to the table. ( still pain in the ass) but nothing worked good/safe. the carts with the hoist lots of people have dropped lots of 4ths with them once the spin the 4th around.
    We looked at a engine hoist but the feet wont fit under the machine so you would have to extend the boom 2-3 feet in front of the front feet. not to mention they take up a ton of floor space when moving them around.

    gotta be a better way and less room to. if that top bar for the doors wasnt in the way, I would just put a permanent hoist from one side to other.
    interested in seeing what others do as well.

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    I avoid Chinese junk tools as a rule, but for 95 bucks I bought an electric cable hoist to remove and install the tailstock and or work head
    from my grinder. I have unistrut up in my trusses to support the hoist. Because my ceiling height is 12 foot, I don't even have it on a trolley.
    With eight feet between the hoist and the top of my grinder, I just pull the tailstock out and lower it to the ground. Pretty easy to swing around 150
    pounds. The $95.00 electric Chinese hoist DOESN'T have a long enough wire on the pendant, so that had to be rewired. Don't know what any manufacturer is thinking of when they make a hoist that can lift fourteen feet, and only supply a four foot pendant. The 95 bucks included FREE FREIGHT! Supposed to lift 400 pounds, but that's really optimistic. It's nice to have a pendant in hand, and the ability to actually use both hands to guide your load out. Pretty small pendant, so easy to operate it at the same time.

    I remove my tailstock every day from the grinder to keep it clean and NEVER just slide it back and forth.

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    I've got a Doosan 3016 VMC, and we ended up cannibalizing a roll-around I-beam crane. One of the one's that's an I beam with two legs, and the legs have wheels? One of those. There's a roller bracket on the I-beam that has a chainfall on it. One end of the beam is anchored to a weldment we attached to the top of the VMC's column, a foot or two above the column, so it doesn't obstruct anything. It attaches to the hoist points. The other end is attached to one of the legs from the original setup. So we've got at least 1000 pounds of serious hoisting right out the front door of our VMC, for getting all our pallets and vises in and out. (We have a pallet system in addition to the 4th. The 4th actually lives on a pallet.) A 24x30 slab of 3/4" jig plate with 3 kurts on it isn't light. This thing makes getting that all in and out *easy* and fast.

    FWIW,
    Brian

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    Pickup truck crane on pedestal $85

    IMG_0234 by Lyn Byrd, on Flickr

    IMG_0233 by Lyn Byrd, on Flickr

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    I got quotes for the swing out cranes and they are pricier than I originally thought. Looks like I'll just be building my own.
    Last edited by Djstorm100; 01-07-2020 at 09:19 AM.

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    I have 3 stackers in the shop and just stick a short extension on one of the forks ,,, I have a small 1,000 lb one that i use the most and its more than enough to get HRC210 in my vf2 or vf4 mill .. I think I payed like $400 for the small one and about $700 each for the 2,000 lb ones ..

    just watch your local auctions .

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    Whats a stacker? those little stand up forklifts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    I have 3 stackers in the shop and just stick a short extension on one of the forks ,,, I have a small 1,000 lb one that i use the most and its more than enough to get HRC210 in my vf2 or vf4 mill .. I think I payed like $400 for the small one and about $700 each for the 2,000 lb ones ..

    just watch your local auctions .
    You load out the front pretty easy on the VF2? I never done it before, we didn't have 4th at community college. Once the machines are set, I'm not moving them unless it's a last resort.


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