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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Sounds to me the owner didnt like hearing of problems when he was millions in the hole,and no prospect of climbing out.........that is the kind of stress gives you chest pains......And I might add ,at 66 ,no one is gonna win a scuffle with a younger man.........As one boss said to me..... Greyhairs are a bad look ,customers think we re stuck in a time warp.
    A lot of times people are just douche baegs

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Sounds to me the owner didnt like hearing of problems when he was millions in the hole,and no prospect of climbing out.........that is the kind of stress gives you chest pains......And I might add ,at 66 ,no one is gonna win a scuffle with a younger man.........As one boss said to me..... Greyhairs are a bad look ,customers think we re stuck in a time warp.
    Starts a LOT earlier than that. "This guy costs us too much."

    Thirty-something unit President. His "targets" around age 40 and up, carrying near-as-dammit ALL of the unit's cumulative "wisdom".

    Which means he considers them "threatening".

    If your next-level are NOT good enough to be challenging - potential candidates to move-up or expand?

    Replace THEM with those who ARE! Can't "win" anything of value if staffed with LOSERS!

    All that sort of so-called "Executive" is good at is rationing out the last of the drinking water in a drifting lifeboat before he - the last one - dies of thirst himself.


  4. #43
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    Guys,
    Not a pity party here. I’m reporting the facts of what has happened. I did make the mistake of blowing up at the boss over this. It wasn’t intentional. I was actually carefully avoiding any conflict with him or the other employee. The text thing caught me off guard. You can use this as a cautionary tale.

    I’ve never used a handle because it keeps me honest on the internet. I am exactly who I am, personal issues and all. Tough to live with to.

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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyhlucas View Post
    Guys,
    Not a pity party here. I’m reporting the facts of what has happened. I did make the mistake of blowing up at the boss over this. It wasn’t intentional. I was actually carefully avoiding any conflict with him or the other employee. The text thing caught me off guard. You can use this as a cautionary tale.

    I’ve never used a handle because it keeps me honest on the internet. I am exactly who I am, personal issues and all. Tough to live with to.
    Sometimes it's for the better. I left my first job after 10 years because I was butting heads with one of 3 brothers. I made them a lot of money but not much came my way. They tried to talk me out of leaving but it was time. I found out that months later a job I designed and quoted...and would have machined and welded came in. It was a little over 100k with over 45% profit...they had to decline the order because they couldn't make it in house and it was too expensive to have it done outside. Monthly sales were around 300k so that was a big deal. I said I'd never go back to salary after that place, and never did.

    They can take a lot away from you, but when they go for your pride it's time to beat feet.

  7. #45
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    I always viewed other employees as bit players in the story of my life,with bosses providing the comedy relief.I never took any manager seriously,but you gotta play your cards close,in any part of life.....My old man used to tell people what they were doing wrong and what he thought of them,I saw first hand the damage he did.And I never repeated the mistake.

  8. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyhlucas View Post
    Guys,
    Not a pity party here. I’m reporting the facts of what has happened. I did make the mistake of blowing up at the boss over this. It wasn’t intentional. I was actually carefully avoiding any conflict with him or the other employee. The text thing caught me off guard. You can use this as a cautionary tale.
    Why would "we" if YOU did not?

    Business owners, I need your financial expertise

    ???

  9. #47
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    Gary, as men work defines who we are, where we belong. Had words with one of my former bosses today. He changed departments. Astounding how one in charge can't comprehend how him, as a boss, doesn't accept ownership of moral among the troops! We have seasonal help who do most of the shittiest work at our plant. They're getting laided off right before Thanksgiving. Yeah Happy holidays MF! So what do I do, have a lunch for these guys. Me, I'm a no one. But I know what these guys do and am glad they do it. So here's what will happen. Most of the guys wish those getting laid off "Good Luck" (BTW these guys still have mortgages, tuition's, and insurance to pay for right before the Holidays.) Meanwhile the bosses will come into the break room grab some food and go back to their offices. These POS can't even sit down and break bread with these guys! I was a boss for about nine years and realized early on that you're only as good as your men. But, one bad guy can be a cancer for the rest. But make lemonade out of the lemons. Spend time with the kids and Grand kids if they're in the picture. One year. Yep, one year is about the time it takes for the big picture to come into view. By then everything you did or had in the works is done. Now it falls on you predecessor. After a year you're no longer to blame! "Hey, I was the problem but after a year you own it". People only realize what you do when it doesn't get done anymore!

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  11. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmach10 View Post
    Gary, as men work defines who we are, where we belong. Had words with one of my former bosses today. He changed departments. Astounding how one in charge can't comprehend how him, as a boss, doesn't accept ownership of moral among the troops! We have seasonal help who do most of the shittiest work at our plant. They're getting laided off right before Thanksgiving. Yeah Happy holidays MF! So what do I do, have a lunch for these guys. Me, I'm a no one. But I know what these guys do and am glad they do it. So here's what will happen. Most of the guys wish those getting laid off "Good Luck" (BTW these guys still have mortgages, tuition's, and insurance to pay for right before the Holidays.) Meanwhile the bosses will come into the break room grab some food and go back to their offices. These POS can't even sit down and break bread with these guys! I was a boss for about nine years and realized early on that you're only as good as your men. But, one bad guy can be a cancer for the rest. But make lemonade out of the lemons. Spend time with the kids and Grand kids if they're in the picture. One year. Yep, one year is about the time it takes for the big picture to come into view. By then everything you did or had in the works is done. Now it falls on you predecessor. After a year you're no longer to blame! "Hey, I was the problem but after a year you own it". People only realize what you do when it doesn't get done anymore!
    Yah but.. even when you follow in the footsteps of a legend?

    The late Les Myers, 47 years, then retired. Truly beloved.

    Chatted with him afterwards, he said:

    "Funny thing. I told them to call me any time after I retired if they needed anything and I could help out in any way. It has been over a year, now. I have had social visits, but never had even one such call."

    "No, Les. and you will not. If we didn't learn all we could while you were still THERE, shame on us. For my part, I'd sooner take a bullet than admit I had no other option than to bug you in your golden years."

    We both knew I wasn't really at any risk of gunshot wounds. The torch had been passed.

    Next shift tries to do BETTER, not worse, and on our own hook, thanks.

    Human nature. T'was ever thus...

  12. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    This is very true.
    And if you are a manager, as a professional (well, at least you're getting paid!) then if you don't point out things which you observe are wrong, you're not doing your job properly.
    But the fine line is you may not be doing your job for much longer...
    My practice was to tell my manager exactly what I thought was wrong, with suggestions as to how to address the issues. That was my responsibility. I generally did it in writing (email) so they had time to read it, think about it and then get back to me.

    I'd not make any waves. If they didn't do something - not necessarily what I suggested, but something - to fix what I saw as the problem, I'd generally conclude that it wasn't going to be fixed, and maybe the problem was me.

    So I'd quietly plan my departure. Meanwhile I'd do precisely as directed even if I thought the direction was idiotic. But I'd document everything just so there'd be no blame-shifting, at least until after I'd quit.

    You can't fix stupid and you can't change an organisation's culture if you're just an employee. Not worth trying. Took me a few years to learn that lesson though.

    PDW

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  14. #50
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    I didn't expect to find so many people recommending someone tolerate poor working conditions in silence, unless of course they were plotting a quick escape. I can say one thing the OP lasted a hell of a lot longer than I would have. I wonder how many inept bosses are going around blindly thinking they are a great leader of people due to the fact no one has the nerve to confront them about their mistakes?

  15. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I didn't expect to find so many people recommending someone tolerate poor working conditions in silence, unless of course they were plotting a quick escape. I can say one thing the OP lasted a hell of a lot longer than I would have. I wonder how many inept bosses are going around blindly thinking they are a great leader of people due to the fact no one has the nerve to confront them about their mistakes?
    I'd say it's probably more that not. I'm shielded at work which is a great thing. But I see what those who have to interact and play the game have to deal with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I didn't expect to find so many people recommending someone tolerate poor working conditions in silence, unless of course they were plotting a quick escape. I can say one thing the OP lasted a hell of a lot longer than I would have. I wonder how many inept bosses are going around blindly thinking they are a great leader of people due to the fact no one has the nerve to confront them about their mistakes?
    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    I'd say it's probably more that not. I'm shielded at work which is a great thing. But I see what those who have to interact and play the game have to deal with.
    The point, folks... is that industries and technologies and political systems come, go, return, advance, see revolution, evolution, regress, recover, do it all over again...

    Meanwhile, back at the bone, blood, meat, and nervous systems that breed, live, soldier-on, regardless... be it herd animals, non-human canid packs, elephants, whales... primates, and "Oh, by the way.." humans, too.

    There are social interactions and behavioural patterns that survive off the back of a balance between advantage and disadvantage.

    POINTLESS to pretend we have outgrown those ancient and PROVEN - structures off the back of an "enlightened" generation - least of all attributable to "political correctness", "Woke", or "#MeToo.

    Learn to interact as best your OWN nature FITS...

    Seek the niche you are comfortable with... we Do differ, after all.. ELSE be life-long "annoyed", if not also frustrated into a perpetual low-level rage.

    Or worse. Self-destructive - even suicidally or murderously so.

    End of the day, it is STILL "all about" the bone, meat, blood, and nervous systems, 'coz THAT is who were are and what we are. Advanced (or so we SAY we are..) animals.

    JFDWT

    Enjoy it, even.

    God ever made anything better than good food and good sex?

    She kept it for her OWN use!

  17. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by projectnut View Post
    Rule #1 The boss is always right

    Rule #2 If the boss is wrong refer to rule #1

    As mentioned, sometimes it's better to bite your tongue rather than confront someone who has the power/influence to make your life miserable. Rather than be confrontational just walk away and let him fail by his own misdeeds. Don't try to correct, confront, or offer an opinion on a situation he has created, but rather keep silent and concentrate on your responsibilities. In most cases sooner than later the owner will realize who is actually creating the problems. Then it's their choice as how to resolve them.

    If the problems started when the new person was hired and continue to follow that person around it should be fairly obvious as to who is causing them.
    You can bite your tongue for a while.

    Then, it rots your soul, and you start to hate yourself.

    Dunno about the rest of y'all, but I would take great pains to do whatever it took to seee the former employer crash and burn.

    The next best thing, would be to find another decent job, working with decent people, and have a happy life without them!

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  19. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    ... I wonder how many inept bosses are going around blindly thinking they are a great leader of people due to the fact no one has the nerve to confront them about their mistakes?
    Nothing ever happens by mistake or without the (at least tacit) approval of management in any organization. This is
    something I've learned the hard way over the years. If it looks bad and stinks, probably there is a manager in there who
    either a) knows about it and wants it that way, or b) knows about it and does not care, or c) knows about it and realizes
    it's above his grade to try to change it.

    Hence I tend to tread lightly when the fubar situation presents itself. No need to bug my boss about it, other than to
    mention it in passing. If I were him, I'd probably learn to hate me if worker me kept on harping on about some percieved
    issue that manager me already knows about, and falls into one of the three catagories above. In other words, confrontation
    might seem like a good idea but maybe not really helpful in the long run.

  20. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Nothing ever happens by mistake or without the (at least tacit) approval of management in any organization. This is
    something I've learned the hard way over the years. If it looks bad and stinks, probably there is a manager in there who
    either a) knows about it and wants it that way, or b) knows about it and does not care, or c) knows about it and realizes
    it's above his grade to try to change it.

    Hence I tend to tread lightly when the fubar situation presents itself. No need to bug my boss about it, other than to
    mention it in passing. If I were him, I'd probably learn to hate me if worker me kept on harping on about some percieved
    issue that manager me already knows about, and falls into one of the three catagories above. In other words, confrontation
    might seem like a good idea but maybe not really helpful in the long run.
    Besides which... you can periodically dump all over the rest of us here on PM and stay happy at the workplace. Maybe even in the bedroom... or at least the dinner table, yah?

    No foul. Lot of that going around. Seldom "one way" for more than a few minutes.

    Seems to find a "balance", even?

    "PM. Doing what PM does best."


  21. #56
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    Years ago, a guy I worked with seemed like he couldn't make a decision without asking the boss. I didn't realize for a long time he was sucking up and bulletproof. Took a lot more breaks than I did too, outside smoking with the boss every hour at least.

    Dave

  22. #57
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    [QUOTE=Dualkit;3440834... I wonder how many inept bosses are going around blindly thinking they are a great leader of people due to the fact no one has the nerve to confront them about their mistakes?[/QUOTE]

    You should always question them. This is different than confronting them.
    You have to work them around to a different thinking.
    Call it politics, weaseling or other it's how shit gets done.
    Nobody will accept "I was wrong" or my opps nicely. You box them into a corner and make yourself the master. No one likes this position.

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  24. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    You should always question them. This is different than confronting them.
    You have to work them around to a different thinking.
    Call it politics, weaseling or other it's how shit gets done.
    LOL! You know you got it right when... you've sold your idea to the "Boss" so stealthily.. (s)he comes to try it out on YOU for size. Naturally, nothing for it but to protest it. (S)he OVERCOMES your faulty objections and SELLS your idea back to you and HARD!

    This.. is when you give in - under apparent duress. Of course.

    You'd have to know human nature?

    Last edited by thermite; 11-10-2019 at 11:17 AM.

  25. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    LOL! You know you got it right when... you've sold your idea to the "Boss" so stealthily.. (s)he comes to try it out on YOU for size. Naturally, nothing for it but to protest it. (S)he OVERCOMES your faulty objections and SELLS your idea back to you and HARD!

    This.. is when you give in - under apparent duress. Of course.

    You'd have to know human nature?

    Yeah - that was one of my preferred techniques.

    That & leaking information to whoever the toady of the month was knowing that it'd get back to the manager faster than the speed of light. That had the benefit of total deniability too. Nothing in writing.

    Carbide Bob's got it right as per. Head-on confrontation might make you feel good but it pisses off management, gets them to go defensive and look at you as the problem child, not the problem you want solved. Utterly counterproductive.

    PDW

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  27. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    Yeah - that was one of my preferred techniques.

    That & leaking information to whoever the toady of the month was knowing that it'd get back to the manager faster than the speed of light. That had the benefit of total deniability too. Nothing in writing.

    Carbide Bob's got it right as per. Head-on confrontation might make you feel good but it pisses off management, gets them to go defensive and look at you as the problem child, not the problem you want solved. Utterly counterproductive.

    PDW
    It all boils down to, upper management will do what upper management wants...right, wrong, or indifferent.

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