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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Besides which... you can periodically dump all over the rest of us here on PM ...
    Nope, not all of the site. Mostly just you....
    Hammer always hits the tallest nail the most.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Nope, not all of the site. Mostly just you....
    Hammer always hits the tallest nail the most.
    "From each according to his ability..."



    Don't stop, fer Gawd's sake. Trying to harness the incoming energy to keep the English ales chilled to right about 50 F...

    When I was YOUNGER I didn't have the problem. I could just DRINK them.

    Way it messes with my digestion, declining years, I have to just open the door, eyeball them, remember, and shed a tear. One every two weeks is about the limit.

  3. #63
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    It's not usually the guy that knows his shit, it's the guy that can beat you at a dirty game of checkers who wins out.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkmc View Post
    It's not usually the guy that knows his shit, it's the guy that can beat you at a dirty game of checkers who wins out.
    Aye. And so long as a person is so LAZY as to believe it is ONLY a dirty game, they'll always be the ones to lose, too.

    Few of that tribe are ever aware the folks they class as "cheating" have indeed done just exactly that.

    They actually DID work hard to learn their shit, then kept it a secret just how much and how well.

    That may be "dirty".

    Also works a right treat!

    Lybarger's Corollary to Sod's Law applies:

    "All else being equal? You lose!"



  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    It all boils down to, upper management will do what upper management wants...right, wrong, or indifferent.
    Why would we not? What USE would we be were it otherwise? And Whom TF is it that decides whether it is right, wrong, or wotever for the circumstances and era?

    If ULM were not those who BUILT a company, we surely were among those who COULD do, and had been employed to preserve and grow the existing and/or do the NEXT one.

    That's a skillset, high-stakes strategy and decision-making. Same as welder, lathe hand, mill hand, or master of all in the shop are skillsets.

    Ever we LOSE that skillset, or blood and bullets battle commanders much the same lose theirs?

    The entire lot of us become but serfs to outsiders who DO still have it.

    Next thing yah know, the invaders have all the water, all the land, all the food, all the money, and.. worst insult of all... all the purdy wimmin' makin' THEIR healthy kids.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I didn't expect to find so many people recommending someone tolerate poor working conditions in silence, unless of course they were plotting a quick escape. I can say one thing the OP lasted a hell of a lot longer than I would have. I wonder how many inept bosses are going around blindly thinking they are a great leader of people due to the fact no one has the nerve to confront them about their mistakes?
    My job was quite enjoyable, I was planning on staying a few more years. My pushback with the boss was always about the company doing better. Whenever we had a disagreement it always ended the same way, we did what ever he decided. I never once dragged my feet, and I did my very best to make it work. I was doing exactly that when I got fired.

    My boss was amazingly good at sales and make a boat load of money doing it. Manufacturing isn’t sales and people that do manufacturing can’t be managed like sales people. He started adding employees like crazy expecting rapid growth. However instead of having a manager or two reporting to him and handling the day to day decisions he literally changed it to a completely flat structure with everyone reporting to him.

    That was how things went bad. I live 162 miles from the office and worked from home 2 to 3 days a week. So brown lips had the in with the boss every day. Every time I needed something done he’d go to the boss, spin it his way and do what he wanted. If it didn’t have any impact my work or my home life I’d have been completely quiet. When you let him screw up and want me to spend weeks away from home fixing it you’ve changed the while situation.

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  8. #67
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    Pretty common ,Id say...the guy I worked for couldnt trust anyone (so he said),so everything was down to him..........trouble was he couldnt give a clear instruction,would sort of argue with himself while telling you something,and expect you to do what produced the outcome he wanted,or thought he wanted.....Led me to ignore him ,and do what I wanted......His son was brought in to take over,and said his old man was always like that ....Funny thing was he actually couldnt trust anyone,the engineer was always downloading kiddie porn,and got sprung,the QA guy was a drunk,the woman in the office was blackmailing him(IMHO),his business partner was a softie,and hopeless manager,and the only reliable people were the two foremen and ,of course ,me.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Pretty common ,Id say...the guy I worked for couldnt trust anyone (so he said),so everything was down to him..........trouble was he couldnt give a clear instruction,would sort of argue with himself while telling you something,and expect you to do what produced the outcome he wanted,or thought he wanted.....Led me to ignore him ,and do what I wanted......His son was brought in to take over,and said his old man was always like that ....Funny thing was he actually couldnt trust anyone,the engineer was always downloading kiddie porn,and got sprung,the QA guy was a drunk,the woman in the office was blackmailing him(IMHO),his business partner was a softie,and hopeless manager,and the only reliable people were the two foremen and ,of course ,me.
    Sounds like the makings for a TV show lol

  10. #69
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    Yeah,Col was his name ,and he hailed from Somerset or somthing,and talked like the Two Ronnies......or a pirate......he used to confide in me ,dunno why,but his dream was to fire a guy every day,and have workers waiting outside the gate for a job.....he fired me half a dozen times,and expected me to be at work next morning.One time ,I went to the office ,and got the woman doing the pays to give me the three days pay in lieu of notice in my contract.....Col nearly had a heart attack when he found out....and put a big sign on his office wall to get it back someday......I loved that job,but I walked when a new manager took over.....I told him he was a d/head,but the true reason was to save my inheritance...several million.....which my aged mother was going to leave to charity.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    God ever made anything better than good food and good sex?

    She kept it for her OWN use!
    Old Speckled Hen,Marston's Pedigree.

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    It all boils down to, upper management will do what upper management wants...right, wrong, or indifferent.
    Needed more than a like! Sometimes I wonder "how the hell did they get in charge?!!?" ... But then I think I may not want to know.

  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    Old Speckled Hen,Marston's Pedigree.
    Suspected we had "gone to different schools, together", family coming out of Marston --> Yeovil --> East Bridgford --> Virginia, just to cover the last 600-odd years...



    Try an 'arf & 'arf of Pedigree and Courage's Directors Bitter just for the curiosity of it.

    Also a "newcomer" Innis & Gunn. "Blood Red Sky".

  14. #73
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    An interesting conversation today. Right after I got fired I emailed a lady that owns one of the vendors whose equipment we sell about a job. I emailed her because I worked on a very bad and failing job and when I got it working she blurted out in a conference call "Gary you are my Hero!" She called me on the phone about 2 minutes after she got my email while waiting in line for a plane. She was excited to have me work for them, the problem was working for a Canadian company in the US would be a liability nightmare, and I didn't hear anymore for a couple weeks, so today I called her.

    When I asked where things were she shocked me by telling me she had backed off because an actual conversation with my old boss and the industry grape vine word was that they were really struggling without me, and he was regretting firing me and thinking of asking me back! She then offered to be an intermediary and asked if she could email the two of us about working together again. I agreed and she sent an email to the two of us about burying the hatchet and working it out over coffee. I thanked her and we are awaiting his response.

    I don't believe it will happen, his EGO is just way too big. Then there is Brown Lips, because the only way I'd even remotely consider working for the company again is the immediate termination of that guy. In fact that would be so good for the company that it would be smart for him to do that even if I didn't come back. I have spoken to multiple employees after my firing and they all agree he is a real problem.

    On the one hand they owe me royalties continuing for the next two years so if they fold I would take a big hit. On the other hand it would be nice to say to my wife "See you were wrong, I was so important they failed without me!"

    You know looking for a new job is a lot of work! It's been a long time since I needed to and it hasn't gotten any more fun.
    Last edited by garyhlucas; 11-18-2019 at 08:51 PM. Reason: spellin errers

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    Yikes. Eyes wide open, but forge ahead if you're interested.

    The fact that they owe you money is key. Perhaps make extending that deal (along with ousting slacker) part of the deal for returning.

    Up to you whether to poke the bear or not.

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  17. #75
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    Post #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Well. it sounds like you are WAY better off being out of there. Maybe after everything goes to shit there and they see the guy for the problem he is they will be calling you begging to come back. Time for a raise if they do, assuming you could stomach it.
    Lets hope brownlips gets what is comming to him and you and the company prosper from then on!

  18. #76
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    Just make sure you get a nice raise in pay if you return to your old job.

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  20. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyhlucas View Post
    An interesting conversation today. Right after I got fired I emailed a lady that owns one of the vendors whose equipment we sell about a job. I emailed her because I worked on a very bad and failing job and when I got it working she blurted out in a conference call "Gary you are my Hero!" She called me on the phone about 2 minutes after she got my email while waiting in line for a plane. She was excited to have me work for them, the problem was working for a Canadian company in the US would be a liability nightmare, and I didn't hear anymore for a couple weeks, so today I called her.

    When I asked where things were she shocked me by telling me she had backed off because an actual conversation with my old boss and the industry grape vine word was that they were really struggling without me, and he was regretting firing me and thinking of asking me back! She then offered to be an intermediary and asked if she could email the two of us about working together again. I agreed and she sent an email to the two of us about burying the hatchet and working it out over coffee. I thanked her and we are awaiting his response.

    I don't believe it will happen, his EGO is just way too big. Then there is Brown Lips, because the only way I'd even remotely consider working for the company again is the immediate termination of that guy. In fact that would be so good for the company that it would be smart for him to do that even if I didn't come back. I have spoken to multiple employees after my firing and they all agree he is a real problem.

    On the one hand they owe me royalties continuing for the next two years so if they fold I would take a big hit. On the other hand it would be nice to say to my wife "See you were wrong, I was so important they failed without me!"

    You know looking for a new job is a lot of work! It's been a long time since I needed to and it hasn't gotten any more fun.
    Hate to burst yer bubble.. but of the "many" firms I have executated at, all but Northrop and Esterline failed. Even so, Esterline is a mere shadow of its former self.

    But it wasn't because I left. It was typically 8 to 20-plus YEARS later. I was simply one of those who saw them heading in suboptimal directions, EARLY, tried to change that, could not, recognized I could not.

    Wiser men than I had seen it earlier, yet.

    It was when THEY left I saw it getting worse and followed suit. Early.

    Gerhard Andlinger - two steps up - leaving Esterline, for example.
    Same again, next two companies around the seven to ten-years-in mark.

    If ever you are to be justified in bragging to your wife? It will be because the next round or three of the "good guys" saw your leaving as a signal and followed suit within a year or several.

    As to going back? The only job worth having is CEO / Chairman.

    THEN it becomes YOUR job to deal with the "slacker". And with Gary H Lucas. Of course.

    Up for convincing creditors, present investors, partners, customers, NEW investors you can personally bring on-board, and selling that package to a Board of Directors that you can turn it all good, on time, on budget, on spec. And meet every payroll without fail?

    That's how it works. One man Job Shop to Fortune 100.

    Product, service, or plan-for-performance of/to... Drucker nailed it:

    Nothing happens until somebody sells something.
    Oh. BTW.

    You won't have TIME for mean back-stabbers, bad-mouth biting, "personalities", and petty office politics. Got "prima donna" players? You'll have to find a way to KEEP them and maximize their value.

    Never EVER had a Management role I didn't pay at least ONE prima donna more than I paid myself. Usually several.

    Using YOUR ones more effectively than the opposition is what it takes to WIN. They aren't the ones you fire. They are the ones you must find a way to acquire, keep, motivate, develop, AIM, then exploit. Repeat range. Fire for effect. Do it again, better and faster.

    Trust that much, if nothing else.

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  22. #78
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    I hope it all works out in the way you want it to work out for you Gary.
    But Thermite nailed it - going back will be more than tough.
    If brownlips (great name) stays (which he probably will), perhaps negotiate your position to report directly to the boss and get him out of your loop?
    Goodluck

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  24. #79
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    You got a 50/50 chance in it working out...either it does work or it's a nightmare.

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    As I said I don't believe it will happen. It was just interesting to hear from a person outside the company suggest it. She did initiate a contact, so far no response from the company which is what I expected.


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