Ice Cold Shops: WHY no Heaters? - Page 3
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 130
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Near Seattle
    Posts
    4,827
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3223
    Likes (Received)
    1334

    Default

    So, in my shop, it's a "code violation" to heat one side Iwith central heat, workstation heaters do not count) past a level to keep the sprinkler pipes from freezing. But also a requirement to heat the whole building to keep all of the sprinkler pipes from freezing. Adding enough insulation to allow normal office level heat would require a lot of insulation, AND a very costly permit (the permit is in effect a tax.)

    Part of this is "eco warrior" stuff, but part of it is a kind of manipulation by govt. By design or selection, govt wants some things to be very cheap - and putting pressure on consumption with long term capital costs to keep running costs down seems to be a win. (REQUIRE cars to be more efficient - only pay for the car once, spend less to run it over time, less total demand so lower prices for fuel -> relatively happy voters -> happy govt.) The "global warming" issue (in my opinion) serves mostly as an argument for "give *us* more power!!!!"

    But yes, this means my shop is kind of cold, but not too cold. And no practical amount of spending will fix that.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    16,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Natural gas? I am lucky to have electricity. Modern utilities don't stray too far off the beaten path around here.
    Try lighting something on F-I-R-E !

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Temecula, Ca
    Posts
    3,076
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1344
    Likes (Received)
    4002

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Try lighting something on F-I-R-E !
    it's too bad, but every winter they find people dead in their vans or garages from using a hibachi to stay warm.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Upstate NY -In the Flats next to the corn fields
    Posts
    9,115
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1542
    Likes (Received)
    2503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post
    So, in my shop, it's a "code violation" to heat one side Iwith central heat, workstation heaters do not count) past a level to keep the sprinkler pipes from freezing. But also a requirement to heat the whole building to keep all of the sprinkler pipes from freezing.
    I thought fire sprinkler systems were 'charged' with compressed air and the pipes were dry?

  5. Likes JoeE. liked this post
  6. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Sunny South West Florida, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    11167
    Likes (Received)
    3514

    Default

    Man...

    72° in the shop, and whatever we feel like in our office, year round, even through the blazing Florida summers and those oh so harsh winters

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    16,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Man...

    72° in the shop, and whatever we feel like in our office, year round, even through the blazing Florida summers and those oh so harsh winters
    A good -20f each and every year kills off most of the skeeters...

    Also "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" Uhm yeah, or maybe just cough more...

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    7,925
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    863
    Likes (Received)
    3778

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Man...

    72° in the shop, and whatever we feel like in our office, year round, even through the blazing Florida summers and those oh so harsh winters
    In Southern California I had a metal building shop, it bordered on the desert so basically I just worked nights in the summertime as I didn't want my CNC machines subject to heat over 100F. I had a friend who worked in a constant 72 degree shop who would call me on breaks and ask how hot it was in my shop. When I would tell him what my temp was he said it was 72 there and laugh. I swear he did that daily in the summertime, it never seemed to get old for him.

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    16,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    it's too bad, but every winter they find people dead in their vans or garages from using a hibachi to stay warm.
    Not bad at all.....It's "Twinky removal"....

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    8,382
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    438
    Likes (Received)
    6897

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    Natural gas really is “dirt cheap” these days.

    If there is any way possible, that’s the only true economical, clean, easy way to heat a shop.

    My shop is insulated 4K sq. ft. metal building, we heat it with a 175k btu natural gas unit heater. 68 degrees during the work day, 52 at night. Flat-pay plan is about $100/month, all year round.

    Hard to beat that....
    In a machine shop which has many big pieces of thermal mass is there a much advantage to nighttime temp setback?
    Both in heat and A/C?
    The system has to work a lot harder on reset.
    I've found it to not be a big savings.
    Anyone else tried both setback and constant temp with degree days taken into account?
    Bob

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    7,925
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    863
    Likes (Received)
    3778

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    A good -20f each and every year kills off most of the skeeters...

    Also "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" Uhm yeah, or maybe just cough more...
    There should be a boat load of bugs this summer if we don't get a good long cold spell. This has been an unseasonably warm winter here. It has only dipped into the high teens at night a couple times. Usually in January- February we get single digit over night temps and the day time high doesn't get past freezing. That has not happened at all this year. No measurable snow to speak of either, just a couple small flurries that didn't stick.

  12. Likes digger doug, Booze Daily liked this post
  13. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Aberdeen, UK
    Posts
    3,737
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1299
    Likes (Received)
    1475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Greg, if you have some money to install heat, I would not just install gas heaters.

    I would install some form of a boiler, steam, hot water, or oil for the xfer medium.

    That way, you can use a couple of different fuels in the central boiler (preferably outside)
    Natural gas, propane, oil, waste oil, Firewood, wood chips, etc.

    As the price fluctuates, you can "roll with the punches".
    These things are tightly regulated over here unfortunately. Industrial wood burners need a license I'm pretty sure. Waste oil for sure, and massive amounts of red tape to wade through.

    Insulation is about the only other "easy" thing to throw money at, and not so easy in reality with the amount of existing installed stuff around/on the walls.

  14. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    16,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    These things are tightly regulated over here unfortunately. Industrial wood burners need a license I'm pretty sure. Waste oil for sure, and massive amounts of red tape to wade through.

    Insulation is about the only other "easy" thing to throw money at, and not so easy in reality with the amount of existing installed stuff around/on the walls.
    O.k. but you still can switch from Natural gas, Oil, and propane.

    and if you put in hanging furnaces or other kinds of heaters, you can't switch.

  15. #53
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Lambertville, MI USA
    Posts
    2,699
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1204
    Likes (Received)
    1230

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    Or by the time a shop owner pays the building payment, Salaries, Liability insurance, Health insurance, workers comp insurance, property insurance, company vehicle insurance, Property tax, Income tax, Capital gains tax and Machine payments there's not much left over to keep everybody warm and cozy.

    The one thing I don't miss about USA is all the Taxes.
    Yet after they pay all those taxes they still have money for the 5000 sq' house, the new car for themselves, the wife, the girlfriend, a couple of kids, (which are on the payroll but are never there) the place at the lake, the boat, the two week hunting trips, all the expensive dinner out. (That they tell you about but never invite anybody from the shop) oh I forgot the diamond encrusted Rolex wrist watch, all the expensive guns etc.

  16. Likes Greg White, fusker, DavidScott liked this post
  17. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    7,925
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    863
    Likes (Received)
    3778

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    Yet after they pay all those taxes they still have money for the 5000 sq' house, the new car for themselves, the wife, the girlfriend, a couple of kids, (which are on the payroll but are never there) the place at the lake, the boat, the two week hunting trips, all the expensive dinner out. (That they tell you about but never invite anybody from the shop) oh I forgot the diamond encrusted Rolex wrist watch, all the expensive guns etc.
    He could be in debt up the wazoo and have a zero net worth, you never know.

  18. Likes Ox, Ken hosford liked this post
  19. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    8,382
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    438
    Likes (Received)
    6897

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    Yet after they pay all those taxes they still have money for the 5000 sq' house, the new car for themselves, the wife, the girlfriend, a couple of kids, (which are on the payroll but are never there) the place at the lake, the boat, the two week hunting trips, all the expensive dinner out. (That they tell you about but never invite anybody from the shop) oh I forgot the diamond encrusted Rolex wrist watch, all the expensive guns etc.
    Interesting view and points.

  20. Likes digger doug liked this post
  21. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    16,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    He could be in debt up the wazoo and have a zero net worth, you never know.
    God forbid the owner "The one that takes ALL the risk" should actually...Gasp "make a profit".

    Yes, it's shocking I tell ya.

    Profit is a sin dont'cha know ?

  22. #57
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Lambertville, MI USA
    Posts
    2,699
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1204
    Likes (Received)
    1230

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    God forbid the owner "The one that takes ALL the risk" should actually...Gasp "make a profit".

    Yes, it's shocking I tell ya.

    Profit is a sin dont'cha know ?
    Profit isen’t a sin but greed is.

  23. Likes gustafson, Greg White, mountie liked this post
  24. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    3,920
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    349
    Likes (Received)
    2479

    Default

    The shop had AC before the house did. The shop has always had better AC than the office.

    Heat? IF you cannot afford to heat the building, you cannot afford employees

    I love radiant heat, but I know of one friend who had problems, the floor stays warm and you overheat during the day. It would not have occurred to me

  25. Likes West-7 liked this post
  26. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    358
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    171
    Likes (Received)
    198

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I love radiant heat, but I know of one friend who had problems, the floor stays warm and you overheat during the day. It would not have occurred to me
    Yep, this is a problem during the shoulder seasons. The concrete slabs hold so much heat that when it's cold at night they keep everything warm and then when the sun comes up and adds its own heat the thermal energy has got nowhere to go except into your living/working space, and you. When there is a constant differential like in winter or summer the huge hysteresis is much easier to manage.

  27. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    3,920
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    349
    Likes (Received)
    2479

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxcarPete View Post
    Yep, this is a problem during the shoulder seasons. The concrete slabs hold so much heat that when it's cold at night they keep everything warm and then when the sun comes up and adds its own heat the thermal energy has got nowhere to go except into your living/working space, and you. When there is a constant differential like in winter or summer the huge hysteresis is much easier to manage.
    Actually in a house it usually isn't a big deal. When you run 20 or more hp turning electricity into heat in a shop, it gets unbearable


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •