Ice Cold Shops: WHY no Heaters? - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    I got an old shop and it's very hard to keep warm but I use a electric heater. I need hest to make parts. I don't want to send out parts that are our of spec because I can't control the tolerance because of heat expansion in different materiale.

    Working alot in stainless and up makes it very hard to control f the shop ain't up to normal ish temperature

    I would never use a shop that don't have anything near 20 degree Celsius in it.


    Sendt fra min EML-L29 med Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Building volume should be almost irrelevant when heating a large shop. Why would anyone in their right mind heat the air instead of using infra-red heating unless there were very specialised reasons to need warm air instead of warm buildings, people and tools?
    Hmm, Im not a tv dinner in a microwave. To make accurate parts you cant pick and choose what you want to be hot or cold. Material, coolant, machine, measuring equipment should all be the same teperature and ideally 68def F.

    Moore had a really good explanation in there book on the great lengths they went thru with the building and equipment to hold very tight tolerances on a production level.

  3. #83
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    Primary Reason for me $$$ Living in Michigan heating cost are real . Money spent on heat has no lasting affect . That money spent on tooling , machinery or materials I have something in the future more than memories of warmth . Granted this is personal / hobby , and most of the time not dealing with tight tolerances . As I age this has become harder warm cloths only go so far when you are touching cold metal. .

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  5. #84
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    When my nuts have migrated into my chest, I'm done for the day.

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  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Building volume should be almost irrelevant when heating a large shop. Why would anyone in their right mind heat the air instead of using infra-red heating unless there were very specialised reasons to need warm air instead of warm buildings, people and tools?
    I use tube I/R radiant heaters and love them. One has to be very careful where they are "pointed" in a grind shop and install shields or defectors where needed.
    Yes they do not heat the air but objects. You do not want to stand underneath and don't want the ass end of your grinder in the path.
    Never, ever point one of these at a CMM, surface plate or even small gage stand.
    The new dog's (greyhound) favorite spot is square underneath one. The old dog (Samoyed) more a wintertime and she went as far away from them as possible to lay down.
    The old dog was also insane and perfectly happy outside sleeping in a snow bank at minus zero temps.

    The thing with infra-red heating is that is localized by line of sight. It is not spread so when it warms the objects you need to move that heat with air flow across those objects and then you heat the air
    Hot spots..and you do not want to stand a long time under one of these when lit.
    High mounting helps this line of sight and localized but sometimes your ceiling is not so high.
    Is heating the top of a machine good?
    I just pour the I/R into the aisles and use $20 dollar fans on the floor to move it.
    So yes, in the end, I heat the air with long I/R radiant tubes.
    This for me is easier than all kinds of duct work put I do have to be aware that you can not put a machine tool or gauging here or there when rearrange the furniture.

    What you make has to be a huge thing here.
    Frank is making crazy tight. Any machine or gauge drift is a real problem.
    Others make 100X times more open stuff so temp is maybe a more a "comfy" thing.

    Had a B-port and lathe in my cabin garage for hacking parts on the sleds and bikes.
    Temp never a concern, just try to keep it above freezing if possible with pennies spent and WD-40 spray down so that it won't rust.
    Certainly you can make parts in a 5 degree F or even lower temp shop. Snowmobile suit, gloves,,,,Done that plenty of times.
    Bob

  8. #86
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    I don't think the decision to heat, or not heat the shop has anything to do with the cost or availability of gas, electricity, whether or not wood is available, the price of permits, or anything else along those lines. It's purely a matter of employee efficiency.

    If an employee has to keep running to the refrigerator continually throughout the day to get a cold beer, a cold sandwich, or even a cold soft drink it takes time away from the job and decreases the employee's, and shop's efficiency. On the other hand if the shop is cold there's no reason to leave your work station to grab a "cold" anything. All the "supplies" can be left at the work station without fear of getting too warm to drink, or spoiling due to lack of refrigeration. If there's no reason to leave the work station the employee should theoretically be able to be more productive.

    Speaking of efficiency, another way to increase it is eliminate potty breaks. Just issue each employee a pair of Depends as they walk through the door. I have it on good authority they're good for 3 beers before any potential leaks. Should you have to do a #2 they also will provide a soft (and temporarily warm) place to sit.

    I've given these theories a significant amount of thought. In fact I've even started interviewing potential new employees. Once I start explaining my thoughts and methods for increased productivity I can see the excitement in their faces. A few have become so excited I think they've found religion. One young fellow got so excited he must have thought I was his savior. He started yelling Jesus Christ, and saying Oh Lord, Save Me. I'm about to embark on a second round of interviews, but so far haven't had much luck contacting those that went through the first round. Maybe they're out of cell phone range, or got so excited they're telling their friends about their experience.

    That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

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  10. #87
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  12. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmach10 View Post
    a can of water next to it for sharping HHS tool bits. Said in the winter it used to freeze over night.
    Wait...how can emersing HSS bits in cold/frozen water possibly sharpen them??

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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    I had to spend a month out there in Wilsonville. doing some Mori installs at Rockmore INTL. and found that is some odd feeling weather inside big building. In the mornings the fog was almost impossible to drive in yet would be decently warm. Get to the factory and was almost like being back in SE Asia. Had that Slimy feeling all day.

    My hats off to you guys that live there full time. Just over a month was enough for me. And not knocking Oregon but who the hell puts red lights at the end of an on ramp? I thought the whole purpose of the ramp was get up to speed before merging with traffic?!?!
    We have lights on the On-ramps here in Wisconsin. When the freeway is congested the lights allow 1 car at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spud View Post
    We have lights on the On-ramps here in Wisconsin. When the freeway is congested the lights allow 1 car at a time.
    Yes same here, the lights alternate red - green - red - green... on about a 5 second interval.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcload View Post
    Wait...how can emersing HSS bits in cold/frozen water possibly sharpen them??
    needs to be done under a pyramid

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  18. #92
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    I've become so adept at filtering out the wife's requests to turn up the heat, I don' hear them at work. . She's given up asking.....when you get there, after years of stalwart caveman effort, that's the time when you drop the odd "damn its cold in here!" for a few laughs. Duck as required.

  19. #93
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    My biggest heating expense is the min meter monthly charge by our local gas company ($58 x 2).....so nearly $1400 per year in a gas bill is wasted because we burn nearly 2500 gals of waste oil. I still need the gas hookups due to the last few weeks we may run out of oil or the waste oil furnace could pick up water/brake fluid in the separator. More than half of all waste oil collected comes from our hydraulic cylinder and component repairs and plenty of generous DIY’ers donate to the cause. The hyd oil is mostly clean and works great to heat our 6000 sq ft (w/23’ ceiling). We work in T-shirts year round and have no need to throttle back the heat at night or on weekends. We set the gas unit heater thermostats to 50 deg just in case. Nice to walk in Monday am to a warm shop. Recycling at its best

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  21. #94
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    Gotta say that I've recently put a furnace in my home workshop and I couldn't be happier. The shop is the size of a 3-car garage directly underneath the same, so it's a large root cellar. For most of the last 20+ years, I could tolerate Wisconsin winters down there with the help of an electric heater or two. But I've discovered that the older I get, the colder I get. so my cold nose finally compelled me to put in a gas furnace. For the first time in years, I find myself not dreading going down there.

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  23. #95
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    My 40x60 12' wall shop is pretty much heated by the machines.............below zero and I need to keep the service doors cracked for both heat and humidity. Not exactly the exact cost to heat w/o the equipment running, but it ain't much. Floor is insulated under the slab............R19 in the walls.......R38+ in the attic...........off peak electric boiler for the in'floor. T-shirt year round...............never did get 'round to installing AC...............

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    I just got an e mail to this

    Heaters | Wall Electric | Salamander Electric Heater Wall Mount With 25'L Power Cord 240V 15 KW 3 Phase 36.1 Amps | 653568 - GLOBALindustrial.com

    Anybody with experience with these? I figure at my energy rate it's about $1.25 an hour to run for each one. 50K btu isn't a whole lot, I'd probably need more than one.

  25. #97
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    Larry, you can get free standing electric heaters (bascially big toaster coils) that run on 120. I got on at Grainger some years ago. It does not heat the shop by any stretch - but if I'm working at my desk (where I may get VERY cold sitting) I can point it at myself, and it helps a lot. Obviously not a device to use in a temp controlled area.

    If I were you I'd look for 120 units, because I'm assuming you can plug those in various places, and move them around to wherever you are standing or sitting and shivering on a given day.

  26. #98
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    Larry,...... now that is an electric heater.
    50K btu is nothing to sneeze at and on continuous run would heat my front shop area comfy with the snow a foot deep, zero outside, and the wind blowing.

    That is one of my tube radiants on low and I have three but they are certainly not on full time.
    This is the equal to 10 of those 120 volt plug in guys which max out at 5K btu no matter the style or type. These come in many shapes, sizes, forms and prices but all put out the same heat.

    You have that much 3 phase to spare?
    You'll need to "stir" the air but 20 inch square box fans are only 20-30 dollars and draw very little.
    I set them up for a counterclockwise air flow in the building so a big circle and I place cheap 20x20 furnace filters in front of them and leave on 24/7. Amazing how much dust, dirt and dog hair they collect.
    Do not put a filter on the input side of a fan driven electric heater.

    Electric heat is almost never the most economical method but it is a easy and clean install.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    I just got an e mail to this

    Heaters | Wall Electric | Salamander Electric Heater Wall Mount With 25'L Power Cord 240V 15 KW 3 Phase 36.1 Amps | 653568 - GLOBALindustrial.com

    Anybody with experience with these? I figure at my energy rate it's about $1.25 an hour to run for each one. 50K btu isn't a whole lot, I'd probably need more than one.
    I just looked at that, took a break to check this one:

    https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...8579_200578579

    Found that as with the one I bought LAST year, they had figured folks were coming OUT of winter had already put them on sale.

    Sure enuf... they had done. So I bought my second one while I was at it.

    "What's not to like?" about two of those @ $109.each?

    Cheesier fan is going just a tad noisy after the second season of use.

    BFD. I know where to get fans cheaply, motor or blade and all.

  28. #100
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    thermite,..... Larry's heat poker is way bigger than yours...


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