Ideas for checking accuracy of Moore jig grinder table surface ?
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  1. #1
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    Default Ideas for checking accuracy of Moore jig grinder table surface ?

    ...that aren't super time consuming and tedious ? Got a G18 that is pristine except for the table which has light scratches and no obvious scraping marks left,.....which, if it was a mill wouldn't matter at all...but a jig grinder any table wear at all could make a difference I think...
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    Short of a full-bore check with autocollimator and repeat-o-meter or something like a planekator, you could throw a small surface plate up on the table and zero it, then run a dial indicator on the surface plate and see if there's any deviation from flat in the table travel. If that looks good, indicate the table directly and that should give you a pretty good idea. If the machine travel is not linear/planar then you'll have to do something else. I'm guessing it will be pretty damn good though.

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    Curios as to the why. Specs on a selling ad to look good?
    On this class machine one can kiss even the best DTI check goodbye.
    Bob

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    The table itself should be good unless there is some obvious problem.
    I did get some advice from Moore on checking alignment of the upper section of the jig borer, may apply to the grinder as well.

    Carefully stone the table for burrs. With a tenth indicator in the spindle, set to sweep the Y axis. Instead of having the indicator touch the table, move the indicator to position on the table, and slip a gage block under the indicator tip. Repeat at 90 degrees.
    The table on my jig borer is flat enough that the gage block wrings to the table.

    This was interesting, might also apply to the grinder, if the testing above shows unacceptable error, it could be the upper section of the machine shifted from rough handling, transport.
    I was advised to loosen the upper column bolts, bang on the column with a hammer "being reasonable on application" then re tighten the column bolts while checking alignment using the indicator and gage block method described above. The old #2 jig bore max tolerance is .00008" on the table sweep check.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Curios as to the why. Specs on a selling ad to look good?
    On this class machine one can kiss even the best DTI check goodbye.
    Bob
    Dunno. "Best DTI check" here is 20 millionths (Mahr) or ten millionths, (Hamilton) ...but.. neither one of mine has been calibrated in ages. Lots of folks have better goods, these are old.

    Even so. "relative" is all yah get, and the DoAll, Weber, & Dearborn/C.E.J odds and sods ALSO not calibrated in ages.. can still give you that much.

    "Premium price?"? That probably wants recognized third-party certification.

    "Cap'n ob(li)vious" that a(ny) buyer who actually NEEDS that would have to have it done-over after rigging-in and setting up, regardless.

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    Lets not argue my weeine bigger than another in gauges but more what the OP needs and how to do it without spending mega bucks.
    One would think that the ability to wring a gauge block is known to mean no so much overall.
    I can wring a gauge block to my freshly ground Blanchard chuck all day long. I know it has .0015 taper across the actual surface as I set it that way on purpose.
    Moore jig grinders and owners. A crazy world full of equally crazy people whom think they are magic.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Moore jig grinders and owners. A crazy world full of equally crazy people whom think they are magic.
    Bob
    ROFL! Well. we DID see the "drama queen" name scroll by "on ignore", so yazzz... "they might have at one time."

    But check what "wafer fab" folk work to. PRESENT day!

    Back when I was "day trading" I made more coin off the makers of the fab gear than I ever did off Intel or AMD.

    Higher "beta". Cheaper thousand-share blocks. Thinner "float".

    Those bleeding edge semi-con-disruptor gurus are goaling for Charmed Quark "weenie" levels, and not doing half bad at it!

    3. Semiconductor - Accuracy and Precision : Hitachi High-Tech GLOBAL

    Semiconductor design and manufacturing: Achieving leading-edge capabilities | McKinsey
    Last edited by thermite; 02-16-2021 at 10:09 AM.

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    As always termite, you prove you are a worthless fool. but you are the star of the show.
    lying all along about your past experience, makes you the real dramma queen of the forum.
    The termite commenting on equipment from Moore, is even more ridiculous then his post in the Monarch forum.
    Yes indeed termite, you are a real actor.

    I do have an observation, people that know how to operate this type of machine are mostly gone. The machinist that specialized in this kind of work were never welcome on this forum and chased off by the likes of termite and others.
    All information I obtained about using Moore equipment was from outside this forum, nothing but worthless non sense and static regarding high precision equipment here.
    what one can do is call Moore, seek outside help where ever you can find it, it has never been available on this forum, and certainly never will.
    The bench lathe thread, is an example, a collection of members that should be on a septic tank forum.

    the funniest thing have read in a while, is carbide bob wringing a gage block to a blanchard ground surface! HaHaHa! blanchard grinds his gage blocks too! Yuk Yuk Yuk! the stupid stuff is never ending with these brain boys! happens every time on the Moore subject!

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    Is there a "dislike" button? F. F. S.

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    donie,
    Put a 3000 grit wheel on your Blanchard with a 15 minute sparkout and tell me what the finish comes out. That grit size not a typo.
    Agree that it no good for making gauge blocks as the best six-sigma size control is +/-.000153 inch. I assume you do have a 1/4 micron readout on your Blanchard and do six-sigma on your capability.
    This machine my first op so held tighter the better for all things downstream.

    The Moore machine for sure one of if not the best of all for its time but we are past those times.
    I do understand a passionate love for a precision machine tool that you own of have operated. No taking away from what can be done with a good user on one of these just plain sweet ass machines.
    Like magical in use when coming of a B-port or really good manual lathe as a reference.
    The problem now is they are not fast and we will not fight off the worldwide competition by going slow.
    A for sure legendary machine tool with no practical purpose now except as a niche operation.

    For the op how to qualify such without spending $5000 on outside services is a very real question.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    the funniest thing have read in a while, is carbide bob wringing a gage block to a blanchard ground surface! HaHaHa! blanchard grinds his gage blocks too! Yuk Yuk Yuk! the stupid stuff is never ending with these brain boys! happens every time on the Moore subject!
    Sorry donnie, but if CarbideBob says he can ring a gage block to his Blanchard chuck, I'll put my money on the gage block being wrung to the chuck. I'd even put my money on CarbideBob working to fussy enough limits the best way to measure is a direct indicator comparison to a gage block.

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    To get back on topic...

    As usual the OP does not provide enough information ;^)

    We do not know what measuring means Milacron has available, what level of accuracy he anticipates, or if he wants a figure he can provide to others, or wants to satisfy his curiosity.

    Here is a "satisfy curiosity" approach using common shop items. It will not tell you if the table is good- but will show you that it is "not good". Practice on surface plate to determine how to get the most consistent results.

    The concept is to assemble something similar to a square checker, but which functions like a repeat-o-meter. This involves a mini-sine plate with an indicator holder and indicator held as high as practical above it. The indicator bears on the arm of a square. The square is held in place relative to the sine plate by a parallel clamped to the sine plate. In use, the square is used to push the sine plate across the table, while observing the indicator. With 2 inches between the rolls and the indicator contacting the square arm 20 inches above the surface, a height difference of .00001 between the sine rolls will produce an indicator movement of .0001

    To make the mini sine plate:
    Take a a 123 block and two 1/2 in dowel pins. Using a 1 1/2 and 1 1/8 parallels as spacers superglue one dowel pin on the 2 inch face of the block, so the pin extends past the end by 1/8 of an inch but leaves one of the side of the pin clear. Using the 1 1/2 parallel as a spacer, glue the other dowel pin to the same face, again leaving one side clear. The pins are close to 2 inches center to center. Clamp a piece of flat stock or a parallel 8 or 9 inches long to the "free" side of the 123 block to keep it aligned with the square.

    If you do not want to bother with the above? Use a 123 block with the threaded holes and 3 ball bearings.

    Use a square and indicator holder as tall as you can to increase sensitivity.


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