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  1. #21
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    My choice would be almost any CNC. Once you taste that Koolaid there’s no kicking the habit. And once you taste a CNC without a tool changer, you’ll pine for one that has one. Ask me how I know.

    It all depends on what you want to mill, of course. I got my CNC Decker for half your budget.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #22
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    Thanks to all for the input so far. I should add a bit more to the query:

    My purchase (if I make one at all) is meant mostly for repair work as a compliment to an existing auto shop. While there's nowhere near the amount of machine work done in auto repair these days, it's a major pain to farm out flywheels and heads. In addition to the logistical costs there's the whole matter of putting the results (as well as the time-frame) in someone else's hands. The shop is in a largely rural community, so the opportunity for some ag-related work also exists. (Also there's a small manufacturing plant just one block away. They've been around since 1948 and I assume they have solutions in place, but you never know. If they are not doing their repairs in-house there's definitely a slice of pie to be had based on proximity alone.)

    There's no shortage of auto shops here but there IS a shortage of machine shops. I figure on getting some B2B work directly from my competitors for the same reason I'm considering this route. And all the while I would rather have the option to take on some manufacturing jobs if/when they come up. I'm looking for maximum flexibility with a minimum of complexity. (Surely we all know what's wrong with a ShopSmith MkV; you spend more time fiddle-futzing with getting it set up for a task than you do earning.

    And this is part of why the Big K&T is of interest. The vertical head is independent, rather than convertible as with their smaller unit. And of course there's the matter of rigidity.

    As far as an HBM goes, yeah there's really no argument for versatility. Then again, you can do anything with a Shaper, (but WOULD you?) I have not found an HBM in 3" for anywhere near as little money and they take up an awful lot of real estate.

    I do have space I can use but I'm looking toward putting a lot of other machines in there as well. (I'll probably ask about these separately). Someone mentioned the lack of a quill and this was an immediate concern already, but I'm thinking to get a radial drill press, so... (shrugs)

    One other thing to add is that the particular unit I'm sizing up is only about 25 miles away. While the machine itself does seem a bit spendy for what it is, moving it would be relatively inexpensive. Certainly less than importing from Europe!(Also, there's room to negotiate a lower price).

    For the record, it's from Yoder. My knee-jerk reaction before reading some of the commentary here was that they like to do 'rattle can restos' and generally want too much. Many of their machines are painted Scarlet & Gray (Ohioans know why) and there are some in JD colors. This one is so far untouched and I find that preferable. Paint don't make it work.

    It's worth noting that their website all says 'Call for Quote' but they run an ebay store with ask/offer. I have also scoped out Cleveland Machine and IMCO in Cols, but they're not forthcoming with their prices. I don't roll that way when shopping; I want to have an idea of how proud they are BEFORE I make the call.

    Anyway, thanks again and keep 'em coming.

  3. #23
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    Heads and flywheels rule out a bunch of machines recommenced with good intentions.
    You should have started with this info.

  4. #24
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    Madd Cat,
    Best mill for the buck probably depends on your skill and experience level. Also take into consideration the cost to tool it up. A Bridgeport with a dro, a right angle head, a good vise and a clamp set gives you a lot of versatility without spending all your capital and not taking up a lot of space. The other suggested machines may be faster or in some ways better but a Bridgeport runs for cheap and earns it's keep. Later add the HBO or Jig Mill when that type of specialty work shows up. If you spend say 5K on a BP and tooling it will run a long time. If you buy a used CNC for 7K it probably has already been run a long time.
    My 2 cents
    spaeth

  5. #25
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    used Clausing bed mill 1500lb - 2000lb table capacity..... 5 - 7.5 hp

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Heads and flywheels rule out a bunch of machines recommenced with good intentions.
    You should have started with this info.
    Go broke on either one lessn' you have agro, industrial, marine, stationary & Diesel engine or such.

    Passenger car motors don't GET rebuilt, they get swapped, recycled, or crushed.
    Damned seldom heads are ever pulled, given most outlast the rusted remains, salt-belt States.

    Tooling-up to fight last century's war? No meat left on that bone, is there?

    Flywheels? On passenger cars? Most are automatics. Trucks as well, these days.

    Minds me of the guy got pissed-off at his wife of thutty years.

    Started packing his bags. Said he'd heard of a foreign country the wimmin' were so poorly attended to they would pay a guy a hundred bucks to give 'em a good shag.

    Wife started packing HER bag, sez: "I'm going WITH you!"

    He sez: "Why?"

    She sez: "I want to see how in the Hell you can feed yourself on twenty bucks a YEAR!"

  7. #27
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    Cnc'd Bridgeport or a prototrak bed mill... amazing amount of work that can be done with them.

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  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Go broke on either one lessn' you have agro, industrial, marine, stationary & Diesel engine or such.
    The OP must have some use or why be looking to buy a machine tool?
    Why you buy a machine to makes what makes.
    The OP wants to drop 7+ large plus tooling cost. That is a whole lot of heads or flywheels but sometimes fast in house response can add dollars and work.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    The OP must have some use or why be looking to buy a machine tool?
    Since WHEN did any of us not lust-after a new(to-me) machine-tool FIRST, try to make up any-old excuse for the spend LATER?

    Take the rationalization as to flywheels.

    On a mill? Only the pyramid-shaped ones? Round, flat, disc or even cone ones a lathe works better. Besides, when a brand-new flywheel can be as little as $40, where's the margin in go-fetch, set-up, refacing, asiding again, an old one?




    Site sez "Practical Machinist". Not "Pragmatic Businessman" nor "Bean-Counters to the wise".

    Those among us as can do a Biz plan, J-curve, BE analysis, IRR, ROI, amortization & tax effects calc surely exist. And are just as bad at buying stuff "because we can", or "because we want." when it comes to OUR shop!

    DAMHIKT

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  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Those among us as do a Biz plan, J-curve, BE analysis exist. And are just as bad at buying stuff "because we can", or "because we want.."
    And even if done so many will place those bets on the line and hope for the best.
    Should we discourage those even if the odds against them?
    Bob

  13. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    And even if done so many will place those bets on the line and hope for the best.
    Should we discourage those even if the odds against them?
    Bob
    Bob?

    We could simply be more appreciative of the objective and "commercially aware" ones among us?

    We have become "cheerleaders" instead when "Old Iron" is involved, most especially ANY of 'merica's "Grand OLD", K&T high on that list?

    "We" are akin to "Alcoholics UNANIMOUS!"

    Any seeker of approval for a whim or rationalization need only drop-by, and it will be his in great abundance.

    "Glad somebody SAVED that!'

    Not:

    "Do you REALLY have work for it?"

    Or

    "You can make a lot of money with that." "Here's how...."

  14. #32
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    Find the work, then buy the iron.

  15. #33
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    You wont achieve the necessary accuracy and finish on ally heads for the MLS gaskets with any old mill......flywheels wont be a problem ,but its easier to do them on a simple grinder.

  16. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneaxe View Post
    Find the work, then buy the iron.
    That's easy to say. For a $100k+ 4x VMC? Make sure it's a market pull. For $3k (about what that KT is actually worth)? Get operational and go sell.

    Many of us bought the machinery while building our businesses with no pressing need for it. More confident sell when you do have the capability, and more urgency if a machine is sitting on the floor acting as a freeloader.

  17. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC Mech View Post
    That's easy to say. For a $100k+ 4x VMC? Make sure it's a market pull. For $3k (about what that KT is actually worth)? Get operational and go sell.

    Many of us bought the machinery while building our businesses with no pressing need for it. More confident sell when you do have the capability, and more urgency if a machine is sitting on the floor acting as a freeloader.


    Concur. Hearing a customer's story and then being able to say 'I have just the thing for that' is a pretty powerful selling tool.

  18. #36
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    This is one of my favorite youtube channels.YouTube

  19. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneaxe View Post
    Find the work, then buy the iron.
    Or find BETTER work and don't even have to OWN the "iron" at all?

    Ever notice how many of us puttering around with Old Iron loved it, but.. had to earn the retirement doing something as PAID better ... so we could afford to f**k-around with it in our dotage - no long care if it "made money" or simply wasted it?

    Whilst they who toiled AT the machines life-long often give them a total miss in retirement in favour of a boat, RV, a cottage at the beach, a lake, or a cabin in the woods?


  20. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madd Cat View Post

    My purchase (if I make one at all) is meant mostly for repair work as a compliment to an existing auto shop. While there's nowhere near the amount of machine work done in auto repair these days, it's a major pain to farm out flywheels and heads.
    You are getting answers from folks thinking of setting up a job shop, your proposed use is way different. For flywheels and heads, you really do need dedicated flywheel and head machines, those 2 jobs take 5X longer to do on jobshop machine tools so you'll go broke trying to do them at a fair price - auto machine work is VERY competitive on price and the customers demand it.
    There are a few machines that can be used for auto work and also job shop work - for example a Van Norman head surfacer can be used for other flat planing jobs, like surfacing a wood planer table, resurfacing the face of a hydraulic valve body or pump body, but that's not a frequent occurrance. Conventional mills suck at head repair. A blanchard grinder works great for flywheel grinding, probably as good or better than dedicated flywheel grinders, but what else are you going to do with a Blanchard in a repair shop?
    Personally I'd go nuts trying to do repair work on a mill without a quill, If you need a big boy mill for some of your expected work, then get one and also get a smaller machine with a quill - most repair jobs involve drilling and tapping and you won't want to take a job out of a machine to drill a hole or several holes then put it back in. And you can't step off a hole circle in a radial drill. And walking back and forth to the end of the table to turn the handwheels while you set up a 6" square part, and trying to see the milling cutter touch for the first time from that far end of the table will wear you out and have you looking for a smaller machine. My 9X49 table mill is too big for some of the stuff I do, I often wish for a little tiny 32" table Bridgeport or Millright. Conversely the 50 taper mill is great for the big jobs, but I wind up standing on a stool to see what's happening.

    I'm not trying to discourage you, not at all, I've BTDT and know exactly what you are trying to do, just trying to interject some experience.Plan on having way more machines than you think you'll need right now

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  22. #39
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    Here is a sweet looking little lucas HBM in your budget:
    Located in Ohio also
    LUCAS MODEL 41 Horizontal Boring Mill 3" Spindle #5 Morse Taper | eBay

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    Some videos using HBM
    This first on seems like work you be able to get: Reasonable sized machine also, second link is larger.
    YouTube




    I like watching this guys video's, learned of him thanks to Limy Samy posting one of his some time back, lot of interesting stuff he does and does it well:
    YouTube


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