If you could only have one mill, - Page 3
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 52 of 52
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    4,066
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    714
    Likes (Received)
    773

    Default

    Obviously the HBM is one of the kings of the machine world. The only problem is they take up a lot of space - vertically also. Not everybody has the space for such a machine. I have a Wells 847 and I love it for small envelope work. If I could have gotten a 4" or 5" spindle HBM too I would have.

  2. Likes Hillside Fab liked this post
  3. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    VA, USA
    Posts
    335
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    67
    Likes (Received)
    126

    Default

    OP,
    I thought many of the same things as you are thinking and realized that "one" machine will not do it all. You will find yourself looking for a second machine and tooling on a regular basis only to find out someone down the road does the job for $20.00 and can turn them around in half the time.

    I have a K&T with universal vertical head and shaper attachment. While I really like the machine and has its fair use, it is not always the go to machine.

    I really like the Cinci- Toolmaster as it has the vertical head with quill and rotates and has a universal head on the back. That has been very productive. Problem is finding one of those.

    I also have a Tree 2UVR and Bridgeport for quick or small work. The bridgeport will be gone soon as I am going with a smallish cnc for some of the industrial/factory work you mentioned. It's great to do one-offs on a manual, but when they ask for 20 parts that has two separate pieces and a short amount of time, a manual kind of sucks. Especially when they come back three months later and want 20 more. A cnc, you can save the job and run it, a manual is not the same...

    I stay away from automotive heads as you need to be able to do valve work as well. No one wants to get a head surfaced and then take them somewhere else to get the valves done. Places do surfacing and valves far cheaper and quicker than I can as they have automotive type equip meant for that type of work. Truck heads, and I mean big road truck are the ticket. But you are looking at several hundred pounds and need lifting equip unless you want to destroy your back. But again, they want valves done and also ensure there are no cracks and they seal properly. More equip...

    There is no "one" mill that will do all the potential work you mentioned economically and efficiently. There are plenty of mills that will do all the work in a cumbersome, inefficient and costly manner.

    Mixing automotive and other jobs on one machine is doable, but you will find they make specific automotive equip for a reason. I can't see having two types/sets of machinery, one for industrial or machine work and one for automotive.

  4. Likes Mud liked this post
  5. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    7,471
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    429
    Likes (Received)
    3428

    Default

    You will never complete in the engine rebuild business without dedicated engine rebuilding machines. Yes, they are lousy machine tools, but they excel at their one job. I can do a complete valve job on a Bridgeport, but I could do the same thing on a Serdi in 1/10 the time. If the work is hobby type work disregard the previous information.

    To regress to the original question, if it is 6 inch vise sized work of ordinary materials I'll take a regular series one Bridgeport. Larger workpieces I would prefer a DeVlieg 2B36. Larger yet, just a larger DeVlieg.

  6. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    4,066
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    714
    Likes (Received)
    773

    Default

    I don't think it's so much the machine tool as it is the fixturing. Between that and always having the fixturing set up and ready to go, a regular machine tool just can't compete on setup time alone. In actual machining time there is probably not going to be much difference.

  7. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Once more, thanks for all the input. Everything said has been useful -- even those remarks I already expected and had answered on my own. For it is not just why I think I need a milling machine, or which one, but why do YOU GUYS (and gals) need one. Understanding the rationale helps in my own decision.

    That said, I'll wax philosophic a bit. We seem to have established that there is no market for automotive-centric machining at a Shop level, and for me this comes as no surprise. Meanwhile, as an Auto Shop owner I can say there is enough demand that some of the vagaries could be diminished to my own advantage. This is atypical for the vast majority of shops but for one such as my own which centers around the unusual it quickly becomes a significant issue.

    We're not talking about a 1991 Hyundai Elantra that blew the timing belt and overheated. In that case 'you need a motor, lady' isn't the answer; it's 'you need a new (to you) car.' We're talking about having a '53 MG with a stripped out this and a foobar that (neither of which has anything to do with why the car came into the shop in the first place!) In many cases it would be to my advantage to simply make the part than to spend hours searching to no avail and eventually waiting additional weeks for it to ship from UK.

    Meanwhile, as with these purpose-built machines which make your life so much easier (like the Brake Lathe I already have, but which has been sitting in the corner, languishing in the shop's detritus for more years than anyone can remember), BECAUSE they are only good for the one thing (making buggy whips?), in most cases they truly are worth no more than their weight as scrap metal.

    The same can be (and has been) said of all sorts of other 'old iron'. This applies to many many other areas as well and I'm as guilty of lacking prescience as anyone else (How was I to know all those 1960s comic books would become valuable?) This is why I'm looking for a compromise, or middle-ground.

    Someone earlier said 'if you want to spend $7k...', well, truth be told, I don't. But looking things over and needing to draw a line in the sand somewhere as a starting point I had to face the fact that I may HAVE to -- the trade-off being that I might easily spend even more fixing a wreck in order to 'save money', which is precisely what I'm hoping to avoid. This also explains why I'm looking more or less locally. If the candidate is within a couple-hundred mile radius I can afford to go have a look-see before I sign a check. Farther than that becomes problematic.

    Someone posted a Lucas HBM (thanks for that, BTW) and I have to admit it's worth looking closer. Yet it is offered at WAY less than anything similar, which makes me skeptical. It could be the deal of the century, but if it was in Idaho I wouldn't give it a second thought.

    In the midst of this I wound up remembering that I asked a machinist friend 30-35 years ago about what to consider buying first (this was back when there was still money to be made in auto-centric machining) and he said without hesitation: Horizontal Boring Machine. His reasoning was exactly the same as what you guys have repeated here. (Sometimes I wish I could rememb... Oh, look! A Pony!!!)

  8. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Moscow,Idaho,USA
    Posts
    1,189
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1338
    Likes (Received)
    571

    Default

    Are you in Ohio or Idaho ?

  9. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    54
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    44

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Madd Cat View Post
    and you had about 7-10 grand to spend on it, which one would you chose?

    I'm looking at a K&T 3CH with a universal overhead for a 7k ask and assume that there will be at least 10 man hours involved before I can reliably put it into service.

    On paper, it looks like I could do just about anything I'd ever need or want to do with it. Any thoughts from you guys? Aside from the obvious perils of buying old and used, why should I NOT get it?
    If I had the space hbm with 4 axis dro and rotary table will be able to do 80% of your machine work that you will run into for a manual machine. Van Norman is almost the same but a much smaller foot print.
    I have both and between them they get 90% of the work I do in a mill.

  10. #48
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Utah
    Posts
    926
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1982
    Likes (Received)
    359

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxian View Post
    A Shizouka horizontal/vertical. Hard to find the combo ones but they are about the nicest that aren't too damn small euro trash trophy mills.

  11. #49
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    South Central PA
    Posts
    13,542
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2231
    Likes (Received)
    3473

    Default

    Here's a machine that would probably suit you. it's like a HBM with a vertical quill. 50 taper, tilting H&V spindles, 39 x 27 X 29 travels, tilting full c axis table, CNC and manual operation. It's a Deckel FP7NC. 25 HP, swings a 10" insert face mill nicely. Problem might be that there are few in the US and I don't know of any others that might be for sale, but they show up on German machine dealers. at 16K lbs it would be a tough item to ship though. If I retired and could only keep one mill, this would be the one.
    And it's almost too big, I'm 6'4" and often stand on a stool when drilling to get my head above the drill chips.

    259864d1515192883-fp4nc-long-drilling-project-photo-intense-217135d1515192883-50-taper-knee-mill.jpg

  12. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    2,182
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    999

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Madd Cat View Post
    We're talking about having a '53 MG with a stripped out this and a foobar that (neither of which has anything to do with why the car came into the shop in the first place!)
    The guy who actually does that kind of work and posts here is AlfaGTA. You might check some of his threads. He uses a Deckel FP4. He also does the nicest work you are going to find anywhere in the auto restoration world, bar none.

    The Maho is in the same category.

    I'd prefer a 2B36 but to be honest, they take up much more space and might be a tiny bit less versatile. Better at some things, worse at others but if you've ever run one, you'll be in love for life. But the Deckel/Maho is probably a better choice.

    Hispano-Suiza made a very similar machine but you'll never find one. Of course that would be the coolest but ...

  13. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    551
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    89
    Likes (Received)
    169

    Default

    Well, I can only have one mill, that's my reality, but I am not a pro so my answer is probably not relevant at all. For what it's worth I feel I got a pretty good all round mill for my purposes, a Deckel FP2. Don't really know I could do better for my purposes.

  14. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,263
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8502

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    Well, I can only have one mill, that's my reality, but I am not a pro so my answer is probably not relevant at all. For what it's worth I feel I got a pretty good all round mill for my purposes, a Deckel FP2. Don't really know I could do better for my purposes.
    All abuut the tasking you have for it.

    Porpoises, a Deckel is big enough. It's whales as need a portal or gantry mill.



Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •