Jacobs chucks.....another great wrecked!

this may or may not get the lock- as I'm not asking advice, etc etc, mostly just a rant and fair warning:

we just received a pair of new Jacobs 14N chucks at work (first new ones since they offshored production to China), and the first one out of the box felt kind of 'gritty' when I ran the jaws in to mount an R8 taper. On closer examination:

1- grind grit caught in the assembly grease that was leaking out past the jaws

on dis-assembly for cleaning (who would have guessed dis-assemble on a brand-new Jacobs???)

2- burrs everywhere inside the chuck
3- the bores the jaws ride in had marginal honing, drill marks clearly visible
4- outer sleeve warped badly enough that it wasn't 'cleaned up' either on the inside or outside diameters
5- inside hone also went deeper than the journal portions enough so the sleeve body itself was compromised
6- the small flat on each of the jaws was different dimension from the others
7- the races that the roller bearings ride on both show dimples 60% around from the ball bearings
8- inadequate lubrication inside the chuck (reminded me more of the 'fish oil' the cheaper manufacturers use for lube than lithium grease)
9- what little bit of lube was present inside the chuck was contaminated by both grind grit and machining flakes
10- blatantly obvious that the ends of the jaws were ground after the chuck was assembled
11- after thoroughly cleaning all the crud, general 'tune up', and re-assembly, indicating a gage pin chucked up showed a .015 wobble (~.05 at the business end of a spotting drill), even though the chuck itself was spinning concentric to the spindle.....

the 2nd chuck showed similar 'outside' characteristics (poor workmanship and finish overall), but was somewhat smoother in action. A similar trip down 'indicator lane' showed .0025 wobble (worse out at the end of a chucked spotting drill).

the first chuck is going back to MSC, we're keeping the 'better' one, we needed them both, but are 'making do' with just one for now)

Rant: I remember when a new Jacobs was something the guys would fight over when bought.....kind of a shame another great manufacturing name has gone chinese, sacrificed on the altar of more profit. Really pisses me off to pay 'made in America' prices on chinese quality- and it wasn't even my money being spent!

Chinese rubbish its all greed and profits last company I worked for I spent 25% of my time rectifying work from China same mistakes repeated when I asked why they send the work to them as it was never right was told its still a lot cheaper to rectify the work than get it completed here-What chance you got

My vote is to keep this thread alive this will only stop if we as a collective quit tolerating this crap

Whom owns Jacobs anyway ? Mark Cuban perhaps ?

Sad thing is, my $20 Jacobs clone direct from the land of really cheap crap (aka Ebay and China Post) ran smooth right out of the box, has about .003 runout, and didn't need to be taken apart. Probably came right out of the same factory too. I would have bought the real deal but they sell for as much as I paid for the whole drill press, and honestly I couldn't justify that.

So...my last Jacobs also sucked, so who makes a good key type now days?
Something with up to about 5/8 inch capacity that I can mount a R8 taper on.
David

They're certainly shipping some really crappy stuff.

For the record Jacobs specifications are 0.003" T.I.R. Maximum at Half Capacity on the Superchucks.

PS they are owned by Apex Tool Group

plothoundsman said:

Whom owns Jacobs anyway ? Mark Cuban perhaps ?

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Apex Tool Group. The board is all Bain Capital guys. Very bright but none would have the slightest notion of how to use even a drill chuck.

They state on the website "Customers come first.", which immediately makes me think.....what else do you lie about?

email the board. The should, but probably won't (they're just too smart to not be right), really care that the brand is being destroyed by these idiotic moves. here's the board of directors: http://www.apextoolgroup.com/board-of-directors/66#1. note which ones are bain, then I believe emails are [email protected]

Hmm. I guess Jacobs hasn't learned anything since they moved production to China 4(?) years ago. Remember it clearly. I had ordered repair parts for a Jacobs, my supplier called back And said that the entire first shipment of chucks from China were scrapped. Nothing would be available for six months.

Tom

I had a Jacobs keyless that got ruined (my fault) when I called Jacobs they were of no help, just buy a new one. I called Albrecht and they said if I sent the Jacobs chuck to them they would give me a discount on a new Albrecht. If I remember right it was around $75 off. And the Albrecht keyless chucks are rebuild able.

David J. said:

So...my last Jacobs also sucked, so who makes a good key type now days?
Something with up to about 5/8 inch capacity that I can mount a R8 taper on.
David

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The 5/8" capacity Golden Goose chuck that came with the "unmentionable" bench mill I bought maybe 10 or 12 years back turned out to more than decent quality, despite the name which was less than confidence inspiring. From what I hear they are still decent and good value. Mine was maybe not quite the equal of a top end UK or US made Jacobs but pretty darn close. Certainly on par with properly treated used ones. When the unmentionable mill went it took an older Jacobs, still OK but past its best, with it and the Golden Goose stayed on to make friends with the Bridgeport. Dunno how long it would last in a production environment but mine is still smooth running and accurate but how much of that is due to the relatively light use it gets is an open question. My work is repair / prototype / problem solving based so generally more thinking and research time than machine time. I prefer keyless chucks (Albrecht) for normal use anyway.

Clive

not a big fan of keyless, personally.....never had good luck with them (just a personal preference)

at my day job (30 welder/fabricators, myself and 1 other real machinist), unfortunately, per management: "if they can figure out how to turn it on, they surely know how to use it" (paraphrasing....but that's their intent, dumb as it is)....tools and equipment get used/abused hard......so now I'm down to 1 new but marginal chuck, and 6 beat-to-shit chucks (none of which are rebuildable anymore, the main body is wallowed out from overtightening)

I guess I'll have to find an old Jacobs that isn't hammered and buy it for myself and keep it locked in my box......

Mcgyver said:

Apex Tool Group. The board is all Bain Capital guys.

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I believe the real source of this was the acquisition by Danaher corporation. They buy many good US brands and offshore production. There are plenty of threads on these Jacobs issues. You'll note the price of the Jacobs products has not gone down. Also, the rebuild kits for these new chucks do not work on the old products.

Another example of their buy and outsource business strategy is Nicholson files. You'll find similar complaints about their product quality.

Regarding Bain, after they controlled a significant portion of mattress production and distribution I understand they had the bright idea of making matresses one sided. They figured if people could no longer flip them over to even out the wear, they'd sell twice as many. I notice some companies are now advertising flippable matresses. It's the 'new' thing.

I'll probably get banned for this, but we just bought a Jacobs chuck at work about a week ago, new made in China, and it was perfectly satisfactory, about as good as the old ones. Maybe they're learning something.

That said, I have a couple Jacobs at home that came from a surplus outlet years ago, that were made in the UK. IMO, those are some of the best.

when they make em in china I just stop buying the name brand, and go straight to HF or who ever
no point in paying the suits to import crap

The higher dollar key-less jacobs are "ok".

The last batch of (4) new jacobs super chucks 18N 3/4" capacity ...... were junk.

Conrad Hoffman said:

I'll probably get banned for this, but we just bought a Jacobs chuck at work about a week ago, new made in China, and it was perfectly satisfactory, about as good as the old ones. Maybe they're learning something.

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No they haven't learned. Certainly China is capable of making a good chuck if you stay on top of the process, but QA is a very significant cost and Jacobs isn't doing enough of to keep the junk out of the supply chain. That would impact the bottom line. After all if they wanted quality they could have stayed in the US or even went to Taiwan instead. But China is "cheaper" in the current market.

Read this...
http://www.apextoolgroup.com/news/james-j-roberts-appointed-ceo-apex-tool-group

Buzz words in there include:
accelerating our journey to become a growth-oriented
best cost
strong market share
global positioning

Hmm, no mention of quality.

The method is push volume, make a buck, invest the buck the next victim.

"accelerating our journey". Oh such a cute phrase.
Hopefully the journey is straight to Hell!

Glad I have a good supply of nice chucks at the shop. Sad day when Jacobs left Clemson, to go to China...

Doesn't Gromax make a drill chuck in Taiwan with parts interchangeable with Jacobs?.