Is it just me or do drill bits suck now? - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Thanks but I am gonna stick with the cobalt 135's
    My shop split marine service and fabrication with plenty of 316 work.
    The hard bits have gotten me out of some tough spots with drill work- I am used to them and trust them to carry the day.

    I looked about more and the Norseman set is gonna do it for me.

  2. #62
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    Hey Ya'll,
    Awhile back I had a rash of bad bits.. Just couldn't seem to find any that didn't immediately need sharpening. ( I have an Oliver 21 and a Oliver 600 ) Lately I've had good results with "cle-forge" brand from MSC.
    Just an observation from a small job shop owner who has no skills what so ever at hand sharpening drills.. Drill sharpeners are indispensable to me. Since most of what I do is low volume or one 'off's' I don't have the fiscal luxury of having a large inventory of tooling so sharpening is a money maker for me..
    To the OP,
    If your just drilling mild steel, you may want to get away from the 135° bits and just stick with the old tried and true 118-120° bits.. Much less force needed for the chisel point to penetrate the work. Just something for you to consider. Oliver of Adrian has a pretty good drill grind chart on their web sight that may be of interest to you.
    Just a bit of a practical side bar ( or just an experience I had ). I had a job in the shop drilling aluminum extrusions.. Nice sharp 9/32 bit.. First hole sounded like I was cutting ground up glass.. Standard 120° grind on the drill bit...Second hole crunch,crunch, crunch. Third hole.. no go. Total failure of the cutting edge in aluminum. Must have been really high in silicon.. So I went and consulted with the Oliver chart and saw where their recommended grind for aluminum was a 90° grind.. so off to the Oliver 21 and back to work.. Did well over 150 holes with that same bit with no failures.. Kinda was saved from a loss by my drill sharpener and some institutional knowledge shared by a manufacturer..
    Hope this helps

    Stay safe
    Calvin B

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKretz View Post
    As far as causing oversized holes? The wobble or lobing that happens with a poorly started drill; dull or otherwise damaged cutting edges; land wear or improperly formed lands; excess feed and/or misalignment causing side pressure; excessive runout in the drill chuck or grind that isn't concentric; material inclusions or density variance; the condition of the bearings and ways/gibs in the machine... There are probably literally a page full of these that are possibilities.

    In general, while it is possible to get a nice straight and round hole on size with a drill, it's pretty uncommon, and it shouldn't be expected. It's more likely with a solid carbide drill, but even then, it should be considered a roughing operation unless it proves itself capable of doing what is needed without further operations.

    In other words, the original complaint seems to be complaining about a drill...being a drill.
    "pretty uncommon": so i say it again. i can walk up to the mill/drill anytime, take a drill out of the index and drill a hole in softer steel thats undersize. the shank will barely go in. a slight press fit for a m6 pin. e.g. a 8mm drill, 800 rpm, i dont spot, just peck at the surface 2-3 times and make the hole. must be the swiss cheese im eating all day.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    "pretty uncommon": so i say it again. i can walk up to the mill/drill anytime, take a drill out of the index and drill a hole in softer steel thats undersize. the shank will barely go in. a slight press fit for a m6 pin. e.g. a 8mm drill, 800 rpm, i dont spot, just peck at the surface 2-3 times and make the hole. must be the swiss cheese im eating all day.
    That is probably more down to the hole not being straight and round than it is to being dead on size... And have you actually measured the drills to compare them to the hole size? Either way, are you making dowel pin holes using your new miracle drills? Probably not... If so, you're not getting very accurately placed or sized holes. But you can get away with that in a home shop I suppose.
    Last edited by eKretz; 10-24-2021 at 10:06 PM.

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  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by travis.taylor View Post
    Per the title, is it just me or do most drills just seem to suck now?

    I've been having one hell of a time trying to find twist drills these days that don't have a fantastic tendency to lobe like mad and it's driving ME mad..

    It doesn't seem to matter brand or place of manufacture, almost every twist drill I've had my hands on lately doesn't want to make a round hole with acceptable finish. It's not my machines or drill chucks; they're good to go and I run the drills straight from a collet in my Tree 2uvr 90% of the time. I've been drilling holes for a proper minute now and I don't think my technique sucks THAT bad and I don't ever remember having so much trouble.

    The only thing that strikes me as being the culprit is today's uber aggressive grinds. You find them even on super cheap drills and I'm beginning to suspect that without a bit of center web rubbing,
    you have serious lack of stabilization for the bit. The old drills used to have plain webs, now almost none do no matter the price.

    The only drills I'm remotely satisfied with these days are U.S. made stub length drills. IS IT JUST ME?

    Edit: Mostly drilling mild steel and try to stick to 135 points...

    Travis
    its just you, 135 is much different drilling then 118 degree. 118 is for starting a hole, 135 is for continuing on and finishing.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKretz View Post
    That is probably more down to the hole not being straight and round than it is to being dead on size... And have you actually measured the drills to compare them to the hole size? Either way, are you making dowel pin holes using your new miracle drills? Probably not... If so, you're not getting very accurately placed or sized holes. But you can get away with that in a home shop I suppose.
    i would say its rather about the machines you use. a hand drill will produce a bigger hole as will a typical drill press.

    btw, i have a collection of 50µ under drills and often use those for press fit dowels. saves quite a bit of time. often the absolute location is not really that important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    i would say its rather about the machines you use. a hand drill will produce a bigger hole as will a typical drill press.

    btw, i have a collection of 50µ under drills and often use those for press fit dowels. saves quite a bit of time. often the absolute location is not really that important.
    I have used quite a few different machines in the last, oh, 25+ years as a machinist. From hand drills, to drill presses that weigh more than a commercial truck, to Bridgeport type vertical mills, to massive vertical mills, again outweighing a commercial truck, to hbms that most certainly outweigh a house. Most of these machines have about as rigid and true a spindle as they can get. Most drills on any of them drill oversize. Obviously drilling on a complete hunk of junk can produce a lower quality hole...

    If you want to drill dowel holes from the solid in one op, go for it. I'll stick to the tried and true method that creates a hole to the level of accuracy needed, on size and in correct position. Every time. That's what paying work requires.

  9. #68
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    Another "TEAM OPTI-VISOR" member here; Not to be an old "Crank" but growing up around a shop that was doing aerospace work the job sheets called for a touch up grind on brand new drills before they got loaded into the screw machines. And not by eye... a proper drill pointer!

    Sometimes a special grind as for example a "dub" for polycarbonates; but generally just to get the point centered the lips equal and the relief constant.

    It would not have been uncommon to bore on-size for 3X drill diamater before switching to a twist drill.

    PS
    Feeds and speeds matter!

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    Recently purchased a used mill that came with sets of Dorma drills. Fractional and number drills up to 1/2" and metric in .1mm up to 10mm. The drills are un-sharpened and practically new and would be about 15yrs old. They drill very nice holes on size. Like a 6mm dowel won't fit in a hole made by a 5.9mm drill.

    Very impressed and if I hadn't got them with the mill I would have never put up the money to know what I was missing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pavt View Post
    I think everyone on this site needs to become part of the rest of the world and call them drill bits. Because the material they are used in had ZERO to do with the fact that you still need to make a hole in something. And if you go to *any* supplier and ask to see their selection of drills, the first question they will ask you is, "Do you want corded or cordless?"

    Guess what, English is a living language: it changes, it evolves according to common usage. Uncommon usage tends to be marginalized into oblivion.

    Shove that living language bullshit. Words have to have a meaning. How can you work precisely if you cant communicate precisely? When words mean what ever some asshole thinks they mean then they are meaningless. This shit is how we arrived where we are today. I am working in a nuclear power plant and today a manager bemoaned the fact that he can't even hire a college graduate that can spell. We have an area where parts are placed ready for installation that has signs calling it a "stagging area". Look at all the weenies that have to add "al" to words. Transformational, foundational, and on and on. This forum is not immune. Look at "tangential". WTF does that mean? We are entering an age of illiteracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    We have an area where parts are placed ready for installation that has signs calling it a "stagging area".
    That's where Elks go for a good time

    Look at all the weenies that have to add "al" to words.
    Nouns as verbs .. "He gifted me". I'll gift you, you braindead fleabait - to the back of the head with a broom handle

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    Shove that living language bullshit. Words have to have a meaning. How can you work precisely if you cant communicate precisely? When words mean what ever some asshole thinks they mean then they are meaningless. This shit is how we arrived where we are today. I am working in a nuclear power plant and today a manager bemoaned the fact that he can't even hire a college graduate that can spell. We have an area where parts are placed ready for installation that has signs calling it a "stagging area". Look at all the weenies that have to add "al" to words. Transformational, foundational, and on and on. This forum is not immune. Look at "tangential". WTF does that mean? We are entering an age of illiteracy.
    Speaking of which, I was getting the kids some McD's today and as I'm sitting in the drive through waiting I look across the street and see a big old building that's being rehabbed and turned into an antique store. There are words on the building, big white lettering, must be a foot high at least. Saying things like "Antiques," "Collectibles," stuff like that. One says "Artisianal." WTF?! Talk about a glaring mistake.

  16. #73
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    Well I’m the topic of drills sucking I got a Norseman brand drill for a job in 303 as and it left great finishes. Probably the best I’ve gotten from a drill in a while. I think the only thing better is from solid carbide tsc drills.

    Drill is also fine after 150 holes. I did prefeito to 3/8 and used this drill to get to 17/32


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    Honestly, I tend to agree with drill bits sucking now. In fact, it made make a very reasonable purchase a couple years back. I got a set of spade bits for my birthday and when I tried to use one out of that set, it literally only pulled wood on one side. I took it out of the drill and took my calipers and measured the thing. It was off by quite a bit. Well, I came into the kitchen all PO'd and started scanning Craigslist. Well, I found the answer to my problem. I found a tool and die grinder with a few attachments. Within a few hours, I convinced the wife to head up to RI with me to go and get it. Within a few hours, that spade bit was chewing wood properly as well as several other drill bit sets that I noticed were complete garbage. Heck, even the free HF set I got from a friend, which was ground off center was fixed.

    Do you know why I made this jump, because the bits I've bought, from several different places, have always been screwed up.

    Long story short, I agree.

    Sent from my S61 using Tapatalk

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    I have been using a wider variety of drills lately and got some decent data to use. I have screw machines, they like 118-120* points, split point is preferred. I always spot drill with a 90* first.

    Ghuring and OSG tin coated (cobalt) have worked the best so far. OSG does make an HSS-Vanadium TiN coated 120* point that works great in Stainless and also works fine in AL ( I have part numbers with AL, Steel, and SS callouts). I like that I can use these drills in AL after I run them in Stainless first.

    I was having an issue with an uncommon size recently and was trying not to ream after drilling. I broke an expensive drill and wanted to save a few bucks so I bought a hand full of Hertel/Interstate drills in a few sizes, webs, coatings.

    The TiN Coated Cobalt Hertel 135* Drill only lasted 10 min. I then stuck in an uncoated cobalt 135* Hertel, and it couldnt cut a decent hole. I pulled it out before it burned up.

    Back to the Ghuring 118* TiN/Cobalt, with a reamer to chase it. I am running it at 115-130 SFM in 1215 CS. Close to 9000 parts on it so far. Its cutting about .0015 oversized now, but that is fine for this job. Hell the reamer even broke and the hole is big enough without the reamer now.

    I am finding that spending good money on good drills is the way to go. I cant convince myself to buy any sets. Sets dont have the top of the line drills and coatings. I also wouldnt use 99% of the drills in a set. Order them just for the job at hand.

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