Lathe advice - Whacheon HL460 or?
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  1. #1
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    Default Lathe advice - Whacheon HL460 or?

    I'm looking at a 'new' lathe to replace my Clausing Colchester roundhead. This is a general-purpose engine lathe need, not any sort of special use.

    I've sort of homed in on a Whacheon HL460 18"x40" which is the Korean version of a Mori Seiki.

    Critique this lathe for me, and tell me a 'better' lathe in the same class.

    The only thing I don't like about it, that I know, is it has no clutch. I'd prefer a lathe on which I start the motor one time then clutch it in and out etc. But with a VFD I guess I can get similar results.

    hl-460.jpg

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    GregSY,

    I have this lathe in the 60" length. I bought it used, but in really good condition. It is a very nice lathe to run. The lack of a clutch is a bit of a pain, and I would like to have more than twelve speeds. I hope to put a VFD on mine in the near future to get around that, and it sounds like you have that in mind as well. Overall, it is a fine machine.

    Is this going to be a new Whacheon, or just new to you? The reason I ask, if it is a used machine you are looking at, the only brand I have run that I liked better was a Lodge and Shipley Powerturn that I ran frequently when I was in the Navy. That lathe, in my humble opinion, is the finest lathe around. (I must admit, I have never had the opportunity to run an American Pacemaker. Given the chance, I possibly would have to edit the above statement.) In fact, I hope (in the near future, once I'm done paying for graduate school) to find one in semi-decent shape with the intent of doing a full-on rebuild (ways ground, new spindle bearings, etc.) to bring it back to as close as new as possible.

    If there is anything particular you would like to know about the Whacheon, let me know. Enjoy your new toy!

    Kevin

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    I'm looking at a 'new' lathe to replace my Clausing Colchester roundhead. This is a general-purpose engine lathe need, not any sort of special use.

    I've sort of homed in on a Whacheon HL460 18"x40" which is the Korean version of a Mori Seiki.

    Critique this lathe for me, and tell me a 'better' lathe in the same class.

    The only thing I don't like about it, that I know, is it has no clutch. I'd prefer a lathe on which I start the motor one time then clutch it in and out etc. But with a VFD I guess I can get similar results.

    hl-460.jpg
    I use one daily, great machine, smooth, accurate. The only thing I wish it had is lead screw reverse on the carriage like my LeBlond servo shift. Buy it you will like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    I'm looking at a 'new' lathe to replace my Clausing Colchester roundhead. This is a general-purpose engine lathe need, not any sort of special use.

    I've sort of homed in on a Whacheon HL460 18"x40" which is the Korean version of a Mori Seiki.

    Critique this lathe for me, and tell me a 'better' lathe in the same class.
    "Better", as to all-manual would want a huge ration of PBS (Pure Bullshit Luck), an extensive rebuild project, long wait, cubic ration of coin of the realm, some combination or all of the above.

    As with houses or motor vehicles, for-sure, blanket-sharers only-maybe, you don't have to commit "for life".

    What matters most is that you can:

    - gain significant benefit RIGHT NOW,

    - have an eminently sale-able machine if/as/when you stumble over a better one at some future date, change your plans to CNC, or simply exit the bizness and go skiing, surfin', chasin' chippies 'stead of generating chips, or even just go fission.

    Not hard to sell a Hwacheon in decent condition. Not hard to keep one, either.




    2CW

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    What is a Whacheon lathe? One of my customers has a Hwacheon which they like very much. They also have three Mori Sekis and seem to consider the two makes interchangeable.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    What is a Whacheon lathe? One of my customers has a Hwacheon which they like very much. They also have three Mori Sekis and seem to consider the two makes interchangeable.

    Bill
    Spelling is the same... in OLD ("Chinese" characters..) Korean! We translate it more than one way is all.

    Whacheon U.S.A., Inc. - Commercial Lathes - Used Lathe Equipment & Parts - www.whacheon.com

    hwacheon

    The South Korean firm began with building a fully-licensed "clone" of the Japanese all-manual Mori-Seiki as most major makers moved-over to NC, then CNC. or just left the building of lathes - or even of machine-tools, in general - altogether.

    Same blueprints as Mori, originally, AFAIK. They may have diverged, since - not necessarily in a "bad" way, time has moved on, etc..

    Either way, it is generally regarded as a high-grade "industrial duty" lathe, just as the Mori was. Which, BTW, was "good", but not the same as "near perfect".

    I'd take a Lodge & Shipley, late-era Smart & Brown, similar sized Monarch, or even a Cazeneuve HB, several other European Belgian, Dutch, German, Italian, Swiss, Basque-Spanish, Czech.. lathes.. and more .. any day of any week.

    Just about every industrialized nation built one or more VERY good lathes. Among their national treasures, so to speak. MANY of the top-end UK & European ones where inherently inch-metric AND had easier threading enhancements than their inch-moslty US counterparts ever had to be bothered with at all.

    But where to find those? And in what condition? And what about spares? .. because..

    Downside is that MOST of those Grand Old all-manuals have gone out of production, and long ago, while the Hwacheon still ships, new, under more than one brand, still has NEW spare parts, even for their OLDER lathes.

    Look at what Okuma, LeBlond-Makino, or Cazeneuve are shipping present-day.

    Closest thing to "all-manual" are CNC hybrid "teach in" lathes.

    Sweet and capable items - if only you have the MONEY! Serious money. Most pure-CNC can be less costly than the manual/CNC "hybrids" are. Simpler electronics, one input, not two, if nothing else.

    And then... one has to support and maintain the electronics and software? You know anything about the "exchange of Seimenal fluid"? Ask those who do. "Tough love" may apply, struggling smallholders, not the latest and high-cost deep-pockets best?



    Might be better to buy a South Korean all-manual you can afford to keep running, yah?

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    A Whacheon lathe is a Korean made version of the Mori. It is also the name used instead of the also-used "Hwacheon" by those familiar with the 18th century monastic tradition in Korea, wherein the warlords of the era subverted the Korean language in an attempt to obliterate the culture of the Goguryeo Kingdom which had been in place since for over 600 years. Personally, I'd rather be dead than use the term 'Hwacheon'.

    Whacheon U.S.A., Inc. - Commercial Lathes - Used Lathe Equipment & Parts - www.whacheon.com

    Anyway, thanks to all for the advice. It will be a good used lathe...new ones are out of my range on price. I also see some nice L&S and Pacemaker lathes...but I think their sheer mass and size also places them out of my consideration. A HL460 is about as big and heavy as I want to move and house.

    As for only 12 speeds....well, that is valid but on my Colchester I've lived with only about 6 speeds for 15 years now and it's been fine. All I really need is 'fast', 'medium', 'medium-slow', and 'slow'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    A Whacheon lathe is a Korean made version of the Mori. It is also the name used instead of the also-used "Hwacheon" by those familiar with the 18th century monastic tradition in Korea, wherein the warlords of the era subverted the Korean language in an attempt to obliterate the culture of the Goguryeo Kingdom which had been in place since for over 600 years. Personally, I'd rather be dead than use the term 'Hwacheon'.
    LOL! More like 12 thousand years, actually.

    You would have LOVED to have heard the two part response when our superbly competent - and proudly pregnant - Korean female tour guide at the old Korean Royal compound when a tourist asked if Korea had ever been part of CHINA!..

    - First part was the blaze of fury when she responded "NEVER!"

    - Second part was handing him my business card with the explanation that my "Chinese name" recorded it that had actually been the other way ROUND!

    Guardian of the house of Han. The "black-haired people" who dominate China's fifty-plus officially recognized ethnicities and more than 150 recognized languages and dialects.

    But the Han river watershed they claim as their ancient genetic origin? Not in present-day China at all.

    Modern South Korea, rather. The wiser ones kept moving South and making babies - and money - rather than die fighting. The belligerent ones STAYED, never stopped fighting, any way they could - in your face, or stealthily.

    Similar to Serbs or Sámi, a Korean's idea of SPORT is a well-prosecuted argument, public streets, forests & sniping, or raucous corporate boardroom battles!

    See negotiations with Japan, present month, same as ever.

    Meanwhile, the industrious folks build decent value-for-money into MOST of their exports.

    I'm good with that.


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    I have a Mori MS1250G. If it’s running make sure all the gears work. Some gears will make more noise than others, that’s normal. See if you can take a test cut and look at the finish with a decent insert on aluminum your familiar with. A red flag would be heavy banding. Some of this will go away with proper cleaning, oiling, saddle gib and way adjustment. It will tell a lot about it’s general condition and if their are any big issues. Once you take the finish pass throw a dial test indicator on it and look at the spindle bearing run out. Mine shows between .00005” ~ .00008” after a finish cut. .0005” and higher was probably a crash or somebody using a hammer. Grab the chuck and pull on it You shouldn’t see the dial test move. Look at the carriage feed gear that runs on the gear rack. See how worn it is and how much play you have in the carriage feed wheel. A replacement carriage feed gear is around $450 bones. See if there is oil in the carriage sight window. See if there is visible oil on the ways. Turning the carriage feed seven I think?? Times will give the bed and cross slide a shot of oil. It’s not dependent on the power feed only works when the carriage wheel is moving. You will hear a faint click when it gives a shot of oil. Does the owner know how the oiling system works? See if the headstock has oil. The headstock oil windows only show oil when it’s running. There is a window on the back as well. Obviously if it has a lot of wear on the ways that’s a big issue. Look under the tail stock and see how much wear you have there as well. Make sure the spare change gears are behind the cover. If you buy it, plan on taking the carriage/saddle/cross slide apart for a thorough cleaning. Clean any chips out from under the turcite. The condition of the front gear change data plate is a good indicator of total use. Clean and undented original = low time. Beat up with original paint = medium. Completely unreadable = high time. Old lathe with new data plate = hmmm.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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