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  1. #21
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    Is the headstock setting on a V and a Flat or on 2 Flats? Many of those imports have an adjustable headstock and either has a center pin under the head and you loosen the bolts holding down the head and it has jack screws or a jack screw block located under the head and on the left end. Some have a dowel pin in the front flat on operators side. The machine may have crashed and the head moved. If it swivels and can be adjusted then put your test bar back in the head, losen the bolts and move the head around and indicate the shaft until the right side is + .0005 in 10". Look and let me know. You can also call me and I can talk you through the procedure. Rich.

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    Probably just haven't been patient enough aligning the tail stock, and it begs the question is the material flexing

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpotter View Post
    They can be removed but it is a very bad idea, I have never seen one go back dead flat. Having the lathe level is super important, just a side note how does the spindel sound, is there any play?

    Spindle sounds good , did lift check with dial @ chuck with not even a thou play .

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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbikerdude37 View Post
    Where did you get the genius idea to screw with the headstock?

    I can tell right now that most of what you are doing is just wrong, I bet everything you have done is making things worse. it was better before you fucked with it.

    So how man hours you have into this 30 minute job?

    keep listening to people about headstocks, twist in beds and gap removal and installation. Once you have screwed up on all of it twice you will know the machine very well.

    Ha ha ha , happy learning. In glad you will never touch my lathes.
    The dial indicator told me to adjust the head stock . OBD I notice you are quick to gun down others suggestions but are short on solutions , by all means speak up .

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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    You need to forget that bullshit about a level. You added .029 at the tailstock because a level said to? That machine could cut perfectly at any angle if left alone.

    "Next I brought tail stock in and indicated it , adjusted tail stock to suit horizontally and added .029 shim to to achive +- .0005 sweep on ID of tail stock . "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    Is the headstock setting on a V and a Flat or on 2 Flats? Many of those imports have an adjustable headstock and either has a center pin under the head and you loosen the bolts holding down the head and it has jack screws or a jack screw block located under the head and on the left end. Some have a dowel pin in the front flat on operators side. The machine may have crashed and the head moved. If it swivels and can be adjusted then put your test bar back in the head, losen the bolts and move the head around and indicate the shaft until the right side is + .0005 in 10". Look and let me know. You can also call me and I can talk you through the procedure. Rich.
    Thanks Rich ,

    It is sitting on 2 flats as far as I can tell .

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    Level is not an issue for a lathe unless you want to use a level to setup work. The issue is twist in the lathe bed. I don't care how big or heavy the bed is it can be twisted off plain between the headstock and tailstock. If what the bed is mounted to be it a pan, or cabinet, or legs, or the floor, is twisting the bed just a few thousands out of plain it will cause you all kinds of problems depending on the length of your turning and the position of the tailstock on a twisted bed.

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  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by windsormw View Post
    Thanks Rich ,

    It is sitting on 2 flats as far as I can tell .
    Then there is a BIG possibility that's your problem, if when you turn a shaft in the chuck and if it is .030" out. See if you can find a manual for a machine like yours and look up how to adjust the head-stock (HS) Email me and i'll send you something plus send you info on how to align the tail-stock (TS). I am a professional machine rebuilder by the way. [email protected]

  13. #29
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    This problem comes up about every two months I reckon. Guy buys, inherits, finds a lathe and it won't turn parallel. If had £20 for every time it's been posed I could retire tomorrow instead of next March. A German guy called Schlesinger gave this problem a lot of consideration about 90 years ago. As a result of all this consideration he published a slim manual that tells any reader how to set up and align the most common machine tools we all come into contact with on a daily basis.

    It goes hand in glove with- " How to tram a vice " and " I'm having problems parting off ".

    It doesn't require voodoo engineering to set up a lathe to turn parallel just common sense. Rich King's response is a concise, common sense explanation of what is required.

    For the umpteenth time.

    Line and level your lathe ( I like bolting them down but I've long since ceased advocating this in the U.S. ).
    As they say " You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink ".

    Put a test bar in your lathe spindle nose and align the test bar to the the lathe bed in both the vertical and horizontal plane using a DTI from the saddle. The bar needs to be 0.001" high at the free end and to be nearer the operator at the free end by 0.001". You may made need to re-orientate your headstock depending on the readings you get. Especially if it's a foreign lathe.

    Put the same test bar in the tailstock spindle and repeat the previous exercise with DTI and saddle. Again the test bar should be high at the free end and point towards the operator at the free end by the same 0.001".

    You should now have both the headstock spindle and the tailstock spindle in line with the ways and at the same height from the ways. Be aware the spindle centres will not always be in line with each other.

    When you've done that you need another test bar that will go between the headstock spindle centre and the tailstock spindle centre. You then run the saddle up and down this bar, with a bit of luck you will get a 0-0 reading in both planes. If you don't get this reading you need to move your tailstock over until you do get a 0-0 reading.

    That's it. It's not magic, it's simple really. Only thing is the short cuts other guys advocate don't always work. Any decent turner can make test bars good enough to perform these tests. Hardened and ground bars are really nice but you can get by without them if you have to.

    See you all in two months when this subject comes up again.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Last edited by Tyrone Shoelaces; 11-28-2013 at 03:53 PM.

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    I inherited a Taiwan made lathe when I took my present position some 24 years ago. I had some difficulties with keeping the machine level, being that the layout of the shop by management had placed the machine spanning a relief crack in the concrete floor. I placed a piece of appropriate sized steel plate under the machine which helped me to attain and maintain a level machine from then on.
    From the start I was having trouble with boring straight holes with it. Upon noticing that the headstock was sitting on a flat surface and had no v way extending under it, I concluded that it could possibly be misaligned.
    I made a test bar to fit into the headstock taper and proceeded to make checks, finding significant error with it. I was able to with careful and thoughtful movements able to bring things into alignment and made it an accurate lathe to work with.
    This was years ago, before I had even realized that there was this resource that is PM.

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    Usually getting a lathe to turn straight is a matter of leveling, spend some time doing it correctly. I have worked on hundreds of lathes and have seen headstocks knocked out of alignment it doesnt hurt to check. Checking these things can save lots of time it only takes a few minutes better to be sure, especially on a lathe that looks like it has had a hard life. I worked on a lathe that looked brand new that wouldnt cut straight I tried everything we leveled it we shimmed it nothing helped, the headstock was the last thing in the world I would have thought was the problem but it was out of alignment. I loosened the bolts and used a mallet to tap it in line then locked it down, problem solved. Check everything before you go this route and level the lathe.

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  17. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpotter View Post
    the headstock was the last thing in the world I would have thought was the problem but it was out of alignment. I loosened the bolts and used a mallet to tap it in line then locked it down, problem solved. Check everything before you go this route and level the lathe.
    I was lucky enough to find the jack screws that Richard refers to. Made moving the headstock controllable.

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    No luck involved. " Seek and ye shall find ". That's what they're there for. Regards Tyrone.

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    I've wondered, once a person begins fooling around with the headstock 'angularity', how much jockeying back and forth do you have to do between bed twisting (aka 'levelling') and headstock adjustments, before you're satisfied that the bed is in a normal state of 'straight' and the headstock is properly set? Maybe it makes no difference?

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    Yeah, why didn't I think that ? I reckon you ought to get in touch with all the lathe builders out there and give them the benefit of your wisdom. Regards Tyrone.

  21. #36
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    Just FWIW, I had to turn down a shaft a few months back. I had to knock somewhere around .375 off of it. The "finished diameter" wasn't critical as it had to be turned down to clear other moving parts in the same area. The last 2" had to end up at .625 and that was a critical dimension. The shaft was around 18" long.

    I chucked it up in my old SB 10R and had at it. I didn't even bother to check the alignment of the tailstock, I just chucked it up and had at it. Since the finished diameter of 16" of it wasn't critical, I just let the chips fly. Also my 10R has a little visible wear on the front way. (not severe) And, keeping in mind that most of my lathe work is much shorter workpieces, I decided to mike the non critical part just for the hell of it. I ended up with .002 taper in 16". That is plenty close enough for most of the stuff I do! Also keep in mind that my shop has a cobblestone floor and my lathe has never been leveled and bolted down. (been that way for years)I figger that it's 1100lb weight is enough to keep it where it sits.

    .002 in 16" is not enough for me to bother with trying to get it better! You can't take shit and make ice cream!
    Many times we (including myself) get real anal about having things dead nuts perfect when it really doesn't have to be and more accurate than the machine was ever intended to be. Thus causing us to do tons of unnecessary work. You have fallen into the "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" or the "no good deed goes unpunished" syndrome as you beat yourself up trying to make something way better than it was designed to be!

    With all of that said, when you found that you had to (or thought you had to) shim the headstock up .029, that should have raised an eyebrow that something else is wrong. Shimming it up a few thou would seem OK for a precise alignment, but .030 is a lot to move it without changing the geometry somewhere else. So in effect you screwed yourself trying to fix it. 9 out of 10 when you were wiggling the tailstock around trying to align it better, you got some cheese under it somewhere, or didn't get set down straight and FLAT, or just simply threw the geometry out somewhere else. Also, you might be in a little over your head trying to get it all back to where it really needs to be. When you run into a problem like this, allways check the little shit first. (KISS rule)

    Just my $.02 worth.........

    Frank

    Frank

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  23. #37
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    Yea the deal is that there is always some goofball who does not know what he is doing and makes more work for himself.

    So many times people try to fix a non existent problem. when you dont know how to run a lathe you want to blame the machine and tweak the fuck out of it.

    After that I placed a 3 ft bar in lathe and made a cut . Still its cuts on almost a .025 taper . If I adjust tail stock over I can achive a +- of .008 over 3 ft .
    The problem is you fucked up!

    My suggestion to the OP is to hire a machinist and he should become a welder.

    I can make a sloppy twisted worn out peice of shit make good parts, I do own a file.

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  25. #38
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    thanks for all the folks on this board that commented and helped me along the way.

    Diagnosis.... It's worn out !

    I have checked and measured and checked again - compared data and wa-la ! Turns out , its a sloppy worn out peice of shit !


    I

    n the past 6 months I have done an outrageous amount of turning with this machine I have learned to check every half inch, adjust tailstock for every part and being a contractor I am work with different lathes in different facilities all the time . This experience with my own " worn out twisted peice of shit " has hands down improved my turning skills .

    More times than not I'll jump on a strange lathe and shes not cutting straight . Files , dials and smiles lol

    Because anyone can make parts on a new lathe !

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  27. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by windsormw View Post
    thanks for all the folks on this board that commented and helped me along the way.

    Diagnosis.... It's worn out !

    I have checked and measured and checked again - compared data and wa-la ! Turns out , its a sloppy worn out peice of shit !


    I

    n the past 6 months I have done an outrageous amount of turning with this machine I have learned to check every half inch, adjust tail stock for every part and being a contractor I am work with different lathes in different facilities all the time . This experience with my own " worn out twisted piece of shit " has hands down improved my turning skills .

    More times than not I'll jump on a strange lathe and shes not cutting straight . Files , dials and smiles lol

    Because anyone can make parts on a new lathe !

    To the OP, "windsormw",

    First of all, no, to anyone making good parts on a new lathe. I have seen problems with new machines that would give Mr. King nightmares!

    What a fatalistic attitude! My advice is to give that up right now!

    Easy on the "oldbikerdude". I think the solution is probably a very simple one. You have had a lot of good advice, from very experienced folks, but sometimes the answers are stupid simple. Perhaps it is the tail stock taper. While the machine is perfect in every other way I'd check to see if there is a defective live center, if that is what your are using. But whether it is a live or dead center check to see if the taper matches that which is in your tail stock spindle. Is the center taper tight in the spindle? Is the tail stock spindle secured in the housing? I would also check to see if the tail stock is firmly connected to the ways and is it centered tightly with the offset adjusting screws.

    As an oldtimey manual machinist, given a similar job as you describe, my habit would be to set up the job and take light preliminary cuts at each end, measuring the cuts and adjusting the tail stock accordingly to achieve the desired results! Then I would lightly cut the length and check at intervals to see how the cut looks overall. Damn whether or not the center height is perfect within your expensive indicator's 1/2 thousands shit. The results is all that matter!

    While I respect all those that have contributed to this thread and all have very valid suggestions, you, like all of us, have to play the hand we're dealt! I believe that is what "oldbikerdude" was really trying to say.

    Epilog:

    If this doesn't help, I apologize, and suggest that you modified the lathe to split logs, as one fellow did in eastern Europe. I forget where, but it is found on the "YouTube" thingy. Or I'm sure that you could recover your investment by selling the machine at a profit on the web.

    Your well intentioned friend,
    Bob....not the cat.
    Last edited by Bobnotthecat; 11-13-2014 at 06:57 AM.

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  29. #40
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    Maybe the .029 was added to the tailstock because it was just about worn out ? If that is the case, then it won't be the right height anywhere on the ways except at the point you measured it and added the shim. It wouldn't be too unusual to even turn a barrel shape rather than a taper in some situations. If the tailstock is really worn .029 then the machine has seen some serious use.

    Did you sweep the carriage ways from the tailstock ways and vice-versa (if that makes any sense) ? You might get an idea as to what's going on if you compare readings and think about things for a while. Good luck, I know what's like to work around old lathe problems !

    PS: Somehow I missed reading a coupla' posts before typing this so I apologize if I'm repeating what's already been suggested.
    Last edited by randyc; 11-12-2014 at 07:06 PM. Reason: add PS


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