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Lathe Tool Selection (Boring & Turning)

Aidan Weber

Plastic
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
I need help choosing tooling for a (BDB 929) JET Lathe. This is a two part Problem.

First I bought some Tool Holders in October. From Kenmettal I bought a "Top Notch Holder W0.50 L3.50"
(NKLCL0805V)and a Right Hand Variant. From MSC I purchased a "SDJCL082 1/2" Shank" (and a Right hand Variant). Can you help me choose the Carbide Inserts that go into them, and Explain in detail why.

Next I need to buy Boring tools. I put on a Phase II Quick Change, and I have the Boring Tool Holder Attachment. What would you advise for a Insert Boring Bar?

I'm not a trained machinist, so any advice would be helpful.
 
firstly, don't buy from MSC.
second, contact below,express your needs,take his recommendations, and give him your business...don't waste his time and he will take very good care of you.

Lathe inserts .com

third, read stickies and leave the make and model of your machine out it, it doesn't meet forum criteria, don't be offended- it's just the rules.

stick around and you will learn a lot.
 
help me choose the Carbide Inserts that go into them, and Explain in detail why.
No one here is going to type out the contents of a week's lectures at a vocational school. So there is a serious limit to how deep "in detail" this will be. You have chosen a proprietary (Top Notch) and an actual published standard (SDJCL) toolholder.
"Top Notch Holder W0.50 L3.50" (NKLCL0805V)and a Right Hand Variant.
The Top Notch name is owned by Kennametal, and it often refers to defacto standard insert tooling of a narrow, upright profile. That is not the case for your toolholder, which takes a laydown diamond insert of proprietary design. If you refer to the Kennametal catalog, your left-hand holder takes NP..51L inserts, and your right-hand holder takes NP..51R inserts.

You probably want NPGR inserts. These inserts are available in a variety of grades (carbide body and coating materials) and chipbreaker styles. To find the specific part numbers you want, you must consult the Kennametal catalog and know A) what kind of material you are cutting, and B) whether you are roughing or finishing.
"SDJCL082 1/2" Shank" (and a Right hand Variant).
This is industry standard nomenclature for a tool holder taking industry standard inserts.
S means inserts are fastened to the holder by screw, so the inserts must have a countersinked central hole.
D means inserts are diamond shaped with a 55 degree narrow point.
J means the toolholder is side-cutting, with the insert presented at a -3 degree flank angle, and the head is offset from the shank.
C means inserts have a 7 degree front relief angle.
L means the toolholder is left-handed.
08 means the toolholder has a 1/2" square shank.
2 means the toolholder takes inserts sized by a 1/4" inscribed circle.

Now, if you go looking at the industry standard insert nomenclature, you will see that you want DCxy21z inserts, where
D is a diamond shaped insert with a 55 degree narrow point.
C is an insert with a 7 degree front relief angle.
x is any tolerance option
y is one of the single-sided countersunk central hole options (B, H, T, W)
2 is an insert sized by a 1/4" inscribed circle.
1 is the thickness associated with a DC..2 insert in a SDJC.082 toolholder (you learn this, it's not in the standard table).
z is the corner radius, probably 1 or 2 for this size of insert
So DCMT211 would be a very typical insert size and shape that fits your toolholder. These inserts are unhanded, so they will fit both your left-hand and your right-hand toolholder.

But you are not done. DCMT211 inserts are available in literally thousands of combinations of grades and chipbreaker styles, all of which are proprietary to the various insert makers. Again, you will have to pick specific inserts on the basis of A) what material you are cutting, and B) whether you are roughing or finishing.

Once you know this information exists in an organized form, you can learn it yourself. The industry standard designations are published all over the place, and you can always consult manufacturer's catalogs for proprietary details.
 
firstly, don't buy from MSC.
second, contact below,express your needs,take his recommendations, and give him your business...don't waste his time and he will take very good care of you.

Lathe inserts .com

third, read stickies and leave the make and model of your machine out it, it doesn't meet forum criteria, don't be offended- it's just the rules.

stick around and you will learn a lot.

I disagree on "hiding the lathe make/model"....Trying to help someone fix a problem with chatter (for example). If you don't know that the lathe in question is such a tiny/weak machine, your just wasting the forums time, with suggestions that won't work.
 
I disagree on "hiding the lathe make/model"....Trying to help someone fix a problem with chatter (for example). If you don't know that the lathe in question is such a tiny/weak machine, your just wasting the forums time, with suggestions that won't work.

Good point. I guess the intent of the sticky is to discourage such posts in the first place. The issues arise when that is ignored and the post goes up.

-Marty-
 
I think you guys are getting too picky. The OP was clearly asking about tooling, real tooling from real industry makers. If he'd never mentioned his machine, you wouldn't be bitching.
 
YES! Why do people run carbide on little bitty lathes? Even my Cincinnati TrayTop, big enough to be a "real" lathe in this forum, is too old / not rigid enough / not fast enough to benefit from carbide tooling as its mainstay. I do use carbide for hard turning, of course, but otherwise, HSS is plenty good enough, and for a hobbiest, the time spent in grinding a tool is more than saved in not wading through the complexity of different inserts ... which inevitably ends up with buying the cheapest import set from eBay and wondering why it works so mediocre-ly (is that a word??).
 
The first holder sort of locks you into what the Kenna catalog shows as inserts to fit.
These, which we call gondaol boat inserts here can come from other sources as the patent is up but you won't be buying the volume needed for run.

Why did you buy lefts and rights? They cut in the other direction.
While there are features where you need such it's more about tool in front or in back of the part. (or running upside down).

There is no better place or person that I've known of for small lathe tooling than Lathe inserts .com
He must have the patience of a saint.
Bob
 
I’m going to look at the supply link. I normally buy from McMaster-Carr or a favorite supplier who gets chicom crap if its non critical. My comment and one from a general purpose user with a 7hp lathe, is that I cut everything with the same tools and do a lot of interrupted cut stuff. Most would call it abuse... I get better life from the positive type inserts for general turning likely from more edge support. Otherwise I try to stick to simple and cheap TPG. I don’t want to many choices.
 
I'm going to correct myself. (Post is too old to edit in-place.)
1 is the thickness associated with a DC..2 insert in a SDJC.082 toolholder (you learn this, it's not in the standard table).
Actually, 1.5 is the typical thickness associated with a DC..2 insert. So DCMT21.51 would be the very typical insert size and shape (they are available all over the place), while DCMT211 is possible but not common.
 
... The OP was clearly asking about tooling, real tooling from real industry makers. If he'd never mentioned his machine, you wouldn't be bitching.

You are likely right about that.

However, I think that that misses the point of dd's comment "...If you don't know that the lathe in question is such a tiny/weak machine, your just wasting the forums time, with suggestions that won't work", which recognizes that not all tooling is equally effective in all machines.

The OP question, as I read it, was not a general question about tooling, it was a question about specific tooling for his specific machine, a machine that PM has a clear rule about as a subject for posting.

-Marty-
 
YES! Why do people run carbide on little bitty lathes? Even my Cincinnati TrayTop, big enough to be a "real" lathe in this forum, is too old / not rigid enough / not fast enough to benefit from carbide tooling as its mainstay. I do use carbide for hard turning, of course, but otherwise, HSS is plenty good enough, and for a hobbiest, the time spent in grinding a tool is more than saved in not wading through the complexity of different inserts ... which inevitably ends up with buying the cheapest import set from eBay and wondering why it works so mediocre-ly (is that a word??).

A cinci tray top isn’t up to using carbide tooling, really?? How crapped out is it!:eek:
 
A cinci tray top isn’t up to using carbide tooling, really?? How crapped out is it!:eek:

Well, this is the older model of the TrayTop, made around 1950 as I recall, so nearly 70 years old. Certainly it was a commercial machine, not a home/hobby machine ... but on the lighter end of things. Top speed is 1200 rpm, but it is grunting pretty hard to get there - only 1-1/2 hp. And yes, this one was rode hard and put up wet before I got it. Wear on the ways is liveable, but the wear on the top slide can be a problem if not taken into account. The top slide was a little under-built to begin with, and someone decided it would be good to replace the tapered gib with straight and set screws, further losing some meat and rigidity.

All that said ... I CAN run carbide tooling ... and I do for hard turning ... but I haven't done the homework to figure out the optimal tooling to buy, and for the hobby work that I do, I really don't want to be buying a bunch of different tooling. Meanwhile, HSS just keeps turning out what I need (pun intended!), down to half-a-thou or better when I really need it ... and it is so easy and quick to grind up any tools I need (once I started using the PROPER grinding stones, not the over-hard crud that came on the standard bench grinder).
 








 
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