We have LED lights all over and I battle. For a lot of things I do not see as well with LED as I used to with incandescent light. I am curious if anybody has made some helpful observation/has recommendation for quality light for fine work. Now I make a number of large Gib strips and LED light is a pain. I am looking at maybe 2 weeks of pain ! Thank you in advance.
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LED lights - light quality compared with incandescent
- Thread starter TrueBor
- Start date
- Replies 29
- Views 4,466
mattthemuppet
Stainless
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2016
- Location
- San Antonio
if you can find them, high CRI lights are the best. After that, finding a colour temperature (eg. 2700K vs. 6000K) you like is the next best thing. You'll most likely be paying quite a bit more though, depending on your local market.
TrueBor:
We've found that the Osram/Sylvania LED14A19/F/827/10YV, 2700K, 1500 Lumen lamps are indistinguishable from an incandescent. The lamp's light output is equivalent to that of a 100w incandescent. They're available at all the big box stores here. They sell for about $5.00 US. The UPC code is 046135782822. Most of ours are going on 4 years. Have had one failure. Since I believe you're on 220 volt in SA you'll need to cross reference the lamp to that voltage. Maybe contact local Osram office for help.
Regards,
DB
We've found that the Osram/Sylvania LED14A19/F/827/10YV, 2700K, 1500 Lumen lamps are indistinguishable from an incandescent. The lamp's light output is equivalent to that of a 100w incandescent. They're available at all the big box stores here. They sell for about $5.00 US. The UPC code is 046135782822. Most of ours are going on 4 years. Have had one failure. Since I believe you're on 220 volt in SA you'll need to cross reference the lamp to that voltage. Maybe contact local Osram office for help.
Regards,
DB
Street
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2015
- Location
- Melbourne Victoria Australia
I like a nice bright white light, i found the leds i could buy where a yellow light, no matter what the box said on it.. it was always a yellow light much like the old incadesent bulbs.
I use these they are a Compact fluro bulb and last quite a while. make sure you buy cool daylight
It is a two pin bayonet style but they are available in screw in as well..
voltage is 220 to 240 volts 50 to 60 hz
the webpage they list is www.philips.com/lighting
Not sure where could source them try the webpage or even ebay
I use these they are a Compact fluro bulb and last quite a while. make sure you buy cool daylight
It is a two pin bayonet style but they are available in screw in as well..
voltage is 220 to 240 volts 50 to 60 hz
the webpage they list is www.philips.com/lighting
Not sure where could source them try the webpage or even ebay
Lewie
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2018
- Location
- Albuquerque NM
You probably "don't see as well as you use to" period. :-) I know I don't. It doesn't matter what the light source is. :-)
...lewie...
EPAIII
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2003
- Location
- Beaumont, TX, USA
I have a mixture of LED, CF, and incandescent lights in my house and shop.
I had over 40 four foot fluorescent tubes in the house, shop, and outdoors. I replaced all of them with Sunco daylight LEDs and we love it. That includes 12 in my garage/shop and two in an adjacent store room. The fluorescents gave me fits but I have had absolutely zero problems with the LEDs. And all areas have more light, many with fewer LED replacements than with the fluorescents they replaced.
I was originally replacing the incandescent bulbs with CFs but changed that strategy to LEDs Again, I have had zero problems and have not had to replace a single LED bulb. No problems there either except the CFs continue to burn out. That reminds me, I have two or three to replace tonight.
I love the LEDs.
I had over 40 four foot fluorescent tubes in the house, shop, and outdoors. I replaced all of them with Sunco daylight LEDs and we love it. That includes 12 in my garage/shop and two in an adjacent store room. The fluorescents gave me fits but I have had absolutely zero problems with the LEDs. And all areas have more light, many with fewer LED replacements than with the fluorescents they replaced.
I was originally replacing the incandescent bulbs with CFs but changed that strategy to LEDs Again, I have had zero problems and have not had to replace a single LED bulb. No problems there either except the CFs continue to burn out. That reminds me, I have two or three to replace tonight.
I love the LEDs.
Add flicker to your list and we are pretty well covered.
For me many led lights have too much flicker. Flicker is not visible on light bulb itself but any motion in the lightning appears jerky or somehow not smooth.
VERY annoying when visual feedback from your hand motions comes with delay and at 50/60fps.
Easy way to check for this "motion jerkiness" is to wave your fingers in front of the lightbulb.
If the motion looks like this you have too much flicker:
rons
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Location
- California, USA
I have this light and it is very white and bright. (Sounds racist, to bad)
https://www.amazon.com/Snap-922261-Work-Light-2000/dp/B00OJOCDJO
Led replacement bulbs I like are the brightest I can find. The highest lumens usually work out ok, considering the stuff is all chicomm.
The bulbs which turn out to be yellowish are only good for back lighting in a TV room.
Would like to get four 8 foot led tube lights....
https://www.amazon.com/Snap-922261-Work-Light-2000/dp/B00OJOCDJO
Led replacement bulbs I like are the brightest I can find. The highest lumens usually work out ok, considering the stuff is all chicomm.
The bulbs which turn out to be yellowish are only good for back lighting in a TV room.
Would like to get four 8 foot led tube lights....
Steven-Canada
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2015
- Location
- Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
5000K Daylight
Those seem good but I can not find them anywhere here. I'll keep looking. I mention that with OSRAM 8.5w I had lots of failures. We have 240V here - maybe that matters.
strong sunshine is closer to 6000k. cloudy sky up to 8000k.
gustafson
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2002
- Location
- People's Republic
LEDs have a narrower actual spectrum IIRC than incandescents. This can make it seem harder to see for a given output. Many '60 watt equivalents' don't actually put out as many lumens as a 60 watt incandescent.
Two things combine badly
I personally am not sensitive to CRI or color temperature for work, but others are
Two things combine badly
I personally am not sensitive to CRI or color temperature for work, but others are
PeteM
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Location
- West Coast, USA
Sunglight, tungsten, and halogen bulbs all have continuous spectra. Sunlight with a lot of energy in the entire spectrum from UV to infrared. Incandescent with a smoothly increasing spectrum with some blue and more red. That nice warm glow. Incandescent spectral distribution is also very similar to sunlight as its filtered through the atmosphere near sunset.
LEDs leave "holes" in the spectrum, predominantly in the blue-green area near where our eyes are most sensitive to light. Could be, in making those gibs, you're doing something (applying a blue spotting fluid for scraping etc.) that's just plain hard to see? Most people do OK with decent quality LEDS, though with preferences for different color temperatures. Typically higher and colder for work spaces and lower and warmer for living spaces.
The high CRI LEDS are better. You can also fill in much of the "hole" in that spectrum by putting both a 5000+K color temperature LED and a 2700K color temperature LED on the subject. I have one workbench where the 4 lamp 4' LED replacement fixture has a mix of color temperatures. It provides better color matching.
Or just throw in an older halogen worklight into the mix; using the LEDS for general workplace illumination.
Be sure you have enough light (and avoid glare). LEDS put out more light per watt, but their "same lumens as a 60 watt bulb" etc. claims are often optimistic.
LEDs leave "holes" in the spectrum, predominantly in the blue-green area near where our eyes are most sensitive to light. Could be, in making those gibs, you're doing something (applying a blue spotting fluid for scraping etc.) that's just plain hard to see? Most people do OK with decent quality LEDS, though with preferences for different color temperatures. Typically higher and colder for work spaces and lower and warmer for living spaces.
The high CRI LEDS are better. You can also fill in much of the "hole" in that spectrum by putting both a 5000+K color temperature LED and a 2700K color temperature LED on the subject. I have one workbench where the 4 lamp 4' LED replacement fixture has a mix of color temperatures. It provides better color matching.
Or just throw in an older halogen worklight into the mix; using the LEDS for general workplace illumination.
Be sure you have enough light (and avoid glare). LEDS put out more light per watt, but their "same lumens as a 60 watt bulb" etc. claims are often optimistic.
K
kenh
Guest
6000K for me.
Vision is weakening, need the boost in light
Vision is weakening, need the boost in light
Red is the another weak spot for common "white" leds, especially leds with colder color temperatures above 4000K
My personal preference is >90CRI 4000...5000K lights.. not too easy to find anywhere so good luck finding those in SA
CarbideBob
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Location
- Flushing/Flint, Michigan
Many things influence how LED lights work out and certainly a love/hate thing.
LEDs are directional point sources. This means they love to produce shadows. Some sort of diffusion is needed and this varies a lot in bulb, fixture design and layout.
Sometimes simply moving the lights further away helps.
Conventional incandescence a point source but it is not uni-directional so the light off the side and back of the bulb are reflected into your workspace, filling in the angles, reducing shadow edges.
Think working outside in direct sunlight and your workbench outside on a cloudy day if the cloudy day was brighter.
LEDs are not good at full spectrum lighting, This the CRI mentioned, helpful to mix LEDs of different color temps to even this out.
To get a good CRI one has to add a tuned filter over the LED, blocking the natural peaks, this means lower light output per watt.
Color temps a big one. People get a high color temp and at first think "Oh how nice and bright". Later not so happy with the "harshness" and glare of the lighting.
Understanding Color Temperature (Kelvin)
Mix color temps, have a reasonable standoff, aim some at the reflector or wall/ceiling not the work to provide a better angular fill.
The real question is more what sort of pain is the LED giving you? Don't see as well covers a lot of ground.
Bob
LEDs are directional point sources. This means they love to produce shadows. Some sort of diffusion is needed and this varies a lot in bulb, fixture design and layout.
Sometimes simply moving the lights further away helps.
Conventional incandescence a point source but it is not uni-directional so the light off the side and back of the bulb are reflected into your workspace, filling in the angles, reducing shadow edges.
Think working outside in direct sunlight and your workbench outside on a cloudy day if the cloudy day was brighter.
LEDs are not good at full spectrum lighting, This the CRI mentioned, helpful to mix LEDs of different color temps to even this out.
To get a good CRI one has to add a tuned filter over the LED, blocking the natural peaks, this means lower light output per watt.
Color temps a big one. People get a high color temp and at first think "Oh how nice and bright". Later not so happy with the "harshness" and glare of the lighting.
Understanding Color Temperature (Kelvin)
Mix color temps, have a reasonable standoff, aim some at the reflector or wall/ceiling not the work to provide a better angular fill.
The real question is more what sort of pain is the LED giving you? Don't see as well covers a lot of ground.
Bob
I have found that for flourescent tube replacement, a mix of 2700-3300K with 4000-5000K is best.
The "daylight" bulbs are blue-weighted, the sun has everything from infrared up through ultraviolet, and the daylight bulbs cut off down in the red area.
The mix is very good, and I have a pretty sensitive sense of color. I think having the two tends to fill in gaps. It's not as good as the older mix of "cool white" and "warm white", but it's not bad.
The "daylight" bulbs are blue-weighted, the sun has everything from infrared up through ultraviolet, and the daylight bulbs cut off down in the red area.
The mix is very good, and I have a pretty sensitive sense of color. I think having the two tends to fill in gaps. It's not as good as the older mix of "cool white" and "warm white", but it's not bad.
idacal
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2011
- Location
- new plymouth id
This thread helped me out pete m post especially i had switched my shopfrom metal halide to led. it is brighter but harder to see. I used A lumens tester over the lathe and its like 1200 lumens and i cant see lines.
i Got9, 400 watt leds so 25000 lumen Each light So my lights are not undersized.
But color problems makes sense. I couldNt see why I couldnt see as well as freshly changed metal halides with the same lumens
i Got9, 400 watt leds so 25000 lumen Each light So my lights are not undersized.
But color problems makes sense. I couldNt see why I couldnt see as well as freshly changed metal halides with the same lumens
Steven-Canada
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2015
- Location
- Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
Yes, I prefer 6500K but they do seem harsher on my eyes.
Plus the five thousand is much more readily available.
Either or, they are both a vast improvement over dim yellow incandescent
mattthemuppet
Stainless
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2016
- Location
- San Antonio
Add flicker to your list and we are pretty well covered.
For me many led lights have too much flicker. Flicker is not visible on light bulb itself but any motion in the lightning appears jerky or somehow not smooth.
VERY annoying when visual feedback from your hand motions comes with delay and at 50/60fps.
Easy way to check for this "motion jerkiness" is to wave your fingers in front of the lightbulb.
If the motion looks like this you have too much flicker:
I haven't noticed that much with LED light bulbs, either bought or shop made. It's usually from a specific frequency of PWM dimming so maybe it's more of an issue with dimmable LED bulbs. Definitely an issue with LED flashlight/ torches though.
The "red hole" in LEDs is more pronounced the higher the colour temp. Lower colour temps have a thicker phosphor layer and tend to produce a better (though not perfect) colour spectrum. Main reason why high CRI LEDs are typically in the lower colour temps (up to 5000K at best) and why low colour temp LEDs are typically less efficient in lumens/ watt.
For me I prefer high CRI LED lights because a) makes working on things with different colours easier (try modifying a car stereo wiring harness under 6500K fluorescent lights) and b) green/ brown colour contrast is much better, which is real important for riding a mountain bike at night.
All my shop lights are home made, 4000K and typically high CRI (most ~92, a few >80)
