Lever collet chucks / closers - what's out there?

I just picked up a ton of 3J collets for short money at an auction. Like $2 ea. As it happens, it's a perfect fit for my lathe, an American Pacemaker. Through hole is 1.75 on both. Trouble is, i don't have a collet chuck yet. The lathe has an L1 mount.

I've seen the Sjogren's, and i like the chuck, but not real thrilled about stopping the spindle to fuss with it all the time on repetitive parts. I saw in a few posts here that there was an alternate Sjogren available, as seen in this photo,



This is some sort of lever style Sjogren, which actuated without a drawbar. Seems like a good way to do it, especially with the 1/2 mile long spindle on a Pacemaker. These seem to be rare as hens teeth in L1 spindle nose, so what else is out there that's similar? If nothing, is anyone familiar with these? Can the backplate be changed out to an L1?

I know Pacemakers aren't used for collet work very often, but i just don't have any additional room for a 2nd lathe so the pacemaker will have to do it all.

Any ideas?

Thermite,

Have you had yours apart? How does the mechanism differ from handwheel to lever closer on the SJogrens? Any installed pics? Right now i've only seen a couple in L0 mount. Might make sense to spin up a new back in L1 if it's just a bunch of die springs instead of the planetary setup.

How about a parts list or anything like that? I have yet to see one of these in the wild anywhere. I'm very tempted to spin something up if i can find the right one. I can't imagine it would be much tougher than making any generic L1 backplate for a regular chuck.

I have seen cross sections and parts lists for Sjogren chucks online, but do not have a link. I have forgotten the details, but some Sjogren chucks have the mount machined into the hardened back section of the chuck, so converting to a different mount is not practical. Other Sjogren chucks have separate mounting adapters that are easy to replace. It depends upon what the original chuck mount was. I have mounted a 2J Sjogren wheel chuck that had a separate adapter on an L00 back plate and it was very simple.

Hardinge will sell a priceless L1 adapter plate for a Sjogren 3 chuck. You probably will not like the price if you ask. The fact that they sell the L type adapter plates and no other separate plates indicates that the chucks with L mounts have separate adapters, but the American Standard and Camlock chucks do not. The threaded mounts are also separate.
ShopHardinge - 00900000000000

Hardinge will sell a new Sjogren 3 wheel chuck with L1 mount for $2655. I think the Sjogren lever chucks are no longer made.
ShopHardinge - 00520000000000

I have an unused L25 Burnerd (England) Multisize 2.5" capacity lever chuck with a D-8 integral mount. It takes EE or ME collets. The lever is there, but you have to make the linkage that connects the lever to the lathe bed or headstock. I think it could be made to mount on an adapter plate. I bought it about 40 years ago thinking I would get a lathe to fit it some day. No, not going to happen, so I will sell it.

I have an unused German-made lever collet chuck that holds B42 Index collets (1-5/8" max.). The lever is there, but you have to make the linkage that connects the lever to the lathe bed or headstock. It has a flat back for adapter mounting and I will sell it.

Larry

I would think an ER50 closer on the pattern of a rubber-flex system would go over well. (though not that well ;-)

The Rubber Flex system frequently mounted on the L1 nose of my Mazak Ajax Hercules (love typing that name) is very useful.

I'm getting lots of suggestions for changing my collet system. Unfortunately i have like ~70 3J collets sitting that need something to go in...

Aren't there other manufacturers of 3J chucks out there? my understanding was they are common on CNC lathes. Even an auto chuck would be fine. Just not for thousands of $$$.

You said you want a 3L chuck with an L1 mount and are not interested in any chuck that does not use 3J collets. No problem- just buy these or wait years for one to come along for less money.

Here is a Sjogren No. 3L with L0 mount that can be changed to a different mount. It even has the lever and linkage.
HARDINGE SJOGREN NO.3L SPEED COLLET CHUCK THREADED MOUNT 3J COLLET | eBay

And here is a Sjogren No 3 handwheel chuck with the L1 mount. Buy both and swap mounts and sell the extra chuck. Better have the seller confirm the thread diameter on the mount is 6" to be sure it is an L1.
HARDINGE-SJOGREN #3 3J SPEED COLLET CHUCK LATHE SPINDLE NOSE WITH MOUNT | eBay

There is a said-to-be flat back 3J collet nose with no draw bar/closing mechanism on eBay. You probably will not want to try to find or make a matching air closer that fits your Pacemaker.

Funny thing is, about 35 years ago I went to an auction and bid $10 on a huge lot of 2J and 3J collets. The auctioneer must have been in a hurry to get on to the expensive stuff. He said "Sold" a couple seconds after I bid. I gave the 3J's to a friend and still have the 2J's. Eventually, I got a Sjogren 2J chuck for them.

Larry

How do we know it's the same mount on both? I think the operation of the lever closers are quite different than the rotary ones. The part numbers on the mount seem to be a little different also.

86turbodsl said:

How do we know it's the same mount on both? I think the operation of the lever closers are quite different than the rotary ones. The part numbers on the mount seem to be a little different also.

Click to expand...

I found the Sjogren parts list website, but the link does not work any more. The Waybackmachine did not have it. Hardinge might send the file to you.
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I have the 1981/3 Hardinge Sjogren chuck bulletins RS and LS and price lists, including instructions for mounting and adjusting collet tension for the lever chucks. Both types of No. 3 chuck have a 5.25" bolt circle, but the bulletins do not say what the screw size is. The pictures indicate no difference between the lever and handwheel adapters unless it is the screw diameter. Yes, the chuck mechanisms themselves are very different.

If you want to pay me to make and mail photocopies of the two bulletins, send me a private message.

Larry

Lots to think about. I'll ponder for a bit before i pull any triggers. Thank you for the info.

Edit: found a brochure online that shows a x-section of the lever ones. the adapter is bolt on and appears to be a pretty simple swap. Worst case, make an L1 adapter right on the lathe.

Don't know if they are still around or have exactly what you want, but JFK in California made lever collet closers

Yes, i looked at JFK, Royal and a couple others. Not finding much. I can't afford brand new anyway.

I got a response from Hardinge. The lever and handwheel adapters are NOT interchangeable and all parts for lever are no longer available.

86turbodsl said:

I got a response from Hardinge. The lever and handwheel adapters are NOT interchangeable and all parts for lever are no longer available.

Click to expand...

So you can buy the 3R chuck with L1 back ready to use.

Or you can buy the 3L chuck with L0 back and an L1 adapter to machine to fit the chuck.

Here is a nice new L1 blank adapter for $109. I bought one of their L00 blank adapters. It was made in Japan and appears to be very high quality.

8" L1 Semi-finished adapter Plate for LATHE CHUCKS #ADP-08-L1SM-NEW | eBay

Larry

Ok, i picked up a 3L chuck cheap, will need to manufacture some stuff to make work. But making some progress. Thanks for the discussion.