Lodge and Shipley Powerturn Questions
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  1. #1
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    Default Lodge and Shipley Powerturn Questions

    Looking at a L&S Powerturn 2013 1962 Model.I test ran it and it has a couple of issues.When I run it at 550-700 rpm machine had a vibration ( you could see the headstock moving).Im thinking maybe machine is not level and is on uneven floor.The machine seller bought it from a textile mill and moved it to his shop.The round numbered dial on the feed box will not turn completely to select all the feeds.Also the numbers don’t line up with the mark.Ways look great and compound has only about .005 backlash. I know it’s an old machine so should I be overly concerned.Thanks for any comments and guidance.


    Glenn

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    I found this on the net.

    20" X 126" LODGE & SHIPLEY MODEL 2013 POWERTURN LATHE: YODER #69969
    SERIAL .......................... 45655
    MODEL ........................... 2013
    SWING OVER WAYS ................. 20 1/2"
    SWING OVER CROSS SLIDE .......... 13"
    DISTANCE BETWEEN CENTERS ........ 126"
    SPINDLE SPEEDS .................. 8 TO 2000 RPM
    FEEDS ........................... .0625 TO 0.156 IPR
    THREADS ......................... 4 TO 256 TPI
    TAPER ATTACHMENT ................ YES
    DIAMETER OF SPINDLE HOLE ........ 2"
    3-JAW CHUCK ..................... 12"
    3 POINT STEADY REST.............. 6-1/2"
    FOLLOW REST ..................... YES
    COOLANT WITH CHIP PAN ........... YES
    MOTOR ........................... 15 HORSEPOWER

    Did the head vibrate at the next faster speed?

    Did you check to see if the leveling screws were tight against the floor plates?

    I would guess the dealer sees a sucker if your interested in the machine with these issues. If it doesn't vibrate in the other speeds, then a gear, bearing or shaft is broken or bent because of a crash. If the dealer or seller let it run with these issues then your looking for a problem. I used to sell used machinery and many times a crooked dealer will tell you lie after lie to get you to buy it.

    If you were looking at a used truck and it vibrated and you could not get it in 3 rd gear would you buy it? If your still interested in it, go back and have them level the lathe, pull off the headstock cover and check it out. Then chuck up some steel and take some cuts. It's like buying a car and not taking it for a test drive. Don't be intimidated by some fast talking salesman as he is looking to make a fast BIG buck off of you.

    If your not qualified to check it out hire a local machine rebuilder and have them look it over. It may cost you $200.00 but better then getting stuck with a un repairable machine. Don't fall for the 30 day return privilege as you will have to pay for the trucking and rigging both ways, and many times you won't have time to do that plus wire it up in 30 days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garcher View Post
    Looking at a L&S Powerturn 2013 1962 Model.I test ran it and it has a couple of issues.When I run it at 550-700 rpm machine had a vibration ( you could see the headstock moving).Im thinking maybe machine is not level and is on uneven floor.The machine seller bought it from a textile mill and moved it to his shop.The round numbered dial on the feed box will not turn completely to select all the feeds.Also the numbers don’t line up with the mark.Ways look great and compound has only about .005 backlash. I know it’s an old machine so should I be overly concerned.Thanks for any comments and guidance.


    Glenn
    Presuming you can feed a large 3-Phase motor it sounds promising, actually.

    But you DO need to dig deeper into the actual source of the vibration.

    I'd take another experienced pair of eyes with me, go back and invest the time to get a clearer sight of what is really amiss.

    Ignore compound backlash - many were not even ON the machine for real work. Cross backlash is cheaply corrected. AFAIK, Monarch Lathe still traffic in parts for the L&S line. Nice folks, and helpful. You could call them and ask.

    ISTR the L&S clutches were bought from a third-party specialist who are still in business and still make affordable parts. There's a possible contributor to vibration.

    Does this one have the "tool steel" bedway inserts?

    CAVEAT: This model would have still been in diapers, early 1960's when last I ran far older L&S of that size range and up. Our ones had been built before or during WWII then beat half to death.

    They were still wonderful lathes, and anyone on our three shifts fought for the privileges of time on the few L&S over the lesser lathes in the hall (Niles. mostly..). We'd probably have performed an un-natural act or three to get time on a newer "Large & Shapely"!



    Well worth that second visit - or third - for a deeper dive.

    2CW

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    Quote Originally Posted by garcher View Post
    Looking at a L&S Powerturn 2013 1962 Model.I test ran it and it has a couple of issues.When I run it at 550-700 rpm machine had a vibration ( you could see the headstock moving).Im thinking maybe machine is not level and is on uneven floor.The machine seller bought it from a textile mill and moved it to his shop.The round numbered dial on the feed box will not turn completely to select all the feeds.Also the numbers don’t line up with the mark.Ways look great and compound has only about .005 backlash. I know it’s an old machine so should I be overly concerned.Thanks for any comments and guidance.


    Glenn
    As long as the sliding surfaces are good the rest of it is usually no big deal. A
    '62 in machine land is not old. My Powerturn is a '55.

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    That idiot termite still lying about running machines, when he is just a tech writer all along. So, no running 50" Niles, or L&S lathes, all BS.

    I owned a Powerturn for over 25yrs.
    If its making noise in the higher speeds, the machine most likely has some gears going out located down low in the machines headstock. That was a spendy repair many years ago, cost me several thousands. You can pull the top cover and hear them if that is the problem. I believe the Powerturns highest speed or speeds is more of a sales gimmick, lots of vibration, I just didnt use them.

    The feed/thread selection dial out of time is the result of pulling the cover, and not getting it indexed when replaced. Sounds like there was a problem there.

    The cross slide nut is split with an adjustment screw accessible from the top.

    The lathe worked out pretty good for me, but, I would be more inclined to find a good working American Pacemaker model B, for a heavy duty gearhead lathe.

    I was not convinced that the hard steel ways, last any longer then flame hardened cast ways,the replacement cost in the 1990s was $11000 X 2!

    Also, the shipper clutch/brake in the PT runs wet, meant to be replaced as a unit, be sure that is in good shape.

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    Regardless of the chosen speed the machine still sits on the same floor. I would agree a vibration in only a few speeds may indicate that particular countershaft is bent. That machine has a pretty heavy headstock for that size of lathe. Even if the machine was balanced on a couple of points it will require quite an unbalance to make the headstock move.

    The machine is probably a 20 hp motor, and weighs 8,000+ depending on bed length. Can you feed and move that size machine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    Regardless of the chosen speed the machine still sits on the same floor. I would agree a vibration in only a few speeds may indicate that particular countershaft is bent. That machine has a pretty heavy headstock for that size of lathe. Even if the machine was balanced on a couple of points it will require quite an unbalance to make the headstock move.

    The machine is probably a 20 hp motor, and weighs 8,000+ depending on bed length. Can you feed and move that size machine?
    20 HP was typical;

    Lodge & Shipley 20-1/2" x 126" Engine Lathe

    Here's one from a local Baltimore, MD area dealer with "sound effects":

    YouTube

    There are several more on You Tube.

    So geartrain noise? Oh yes!

    But vibration that rocks the lathe?

    Not when in "ordinary" shape or even well-worn, any range. Part of why major industry loved them.

    Make another visit. Dig deeper.

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    Update on the L&S
    Talked to the seller yesterday about the issues on the machine and he said come back and we could look in the headstock. This morning his dad called me and said it was best I find another machine that I was to nitpicky . I turned a piece of 3”” CR Saturday when I was there about .200 depth of cut and he said I was abusing the lathe.Long story short, he got mad and told me not to come back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garcher View Post
    Update on the L&S
    Talked to the seller yesterday about the issues on the machine and he said come back and we could look in the headstock. This morning his dad called me and said it was best I find another machine that I was to nitpicky . I turned a piece of 3”” CR Saturday when I was there about .200 depth of cut and he said I was abusing the lathe.Long story short, he got mad and told me not to come back.
    .2 is abuse???? What is .5 DOC on 6" 8620? what a moron.

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    I was in the trade,and I can tell you how annoying some newbie nitpickin is......one guy had wasted days of my time looking at a machine,he was always there when I was with another customer,butting in...........anyhoo,he looking at the machine,and he says .."handwheel s bent".......which I knew cause I bent it....lost the temper,and I picked up a long bit of 4"x3" and brought it down hard on the handwheel,should have broke ,but no.....he was skeered,spun the handwheel ,and it was straight.......he decided to leave at that point.....Forklift driver says .."I though you were gunna klobber him"....pretty near ,I reckon.

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    Any working L&S Powerturn is a good deal, especially a '62 build......it's new! The owner was irritated by the OP, that's clear. He will have no trouble selling that lathe. I suspect the OP will be happier with a freshly painted and polished Chinese special.

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    Not looking for a Chinese lathe , but lathe would not run past 440 rpm without tripping breaker.Couldnt listen to higher speed ranges.This lathe was clean and freshly painted and I suspect seller was trying to hide flaws. I made one trip ,it wasn’t like I was calling him every other day to find something wrong.I wanted to find one in good shape with no major flaws ,paint is cheap.Seller was not willing power machine on correct breaker or for me to look inside headstock. He did let me look inside feed gearbox on end. He got pissed off , I didn’t.

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    Call him up and tell him you will take it and pay cash. And you will be over with your rigger to pick it up in an hour. Listen to his reaction. The worse he would do is hang up on you!

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    Sounds to me there are problems with the machine and owner, find a better one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garcher View Post
    but lathe would not run past 440 rpm without tripping breaker.
    That doesn't make much sense. A Powerturn is a constant running motor with a clutch for spindle control. It takes far more amperage to get the motor spinning than it does to get the spindle turning.


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