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  1. #1
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    Default Looking for Carbide "buttons'

    Anyone have a good source for Carbide in a round shape, having a centered hole 3/8" or less? Ideally, in the 1/4" - 3/8" thick range and 1-1/4" - 2" range. The normal sources don't seem to have the right configurations.

    Thanks.

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    These aren't quite what you want (as they're .95" square), but by gosh they'll be flat and parallel:

    SC .350 A1 Square Croblox Gage Block - .350 In., Grade A1

    Other thicknesses available, and if you need them quick they should be in stock. Otherwise I'm thinking getting a round bar, waterjet or diamond wheel slice some wafers, WJ or diamond tube drill the hole, surface grind with a diamond wheel for flatness.

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    What kind of carbide? For a cutting tool? Most in that size range will be forging grades. Circular form tool blank?

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    These guys had a booth at a trade show I was at. Quite impressive. Tungsten Carbide Custom Parts Manufacturer | Pacific Carbide

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    I would warn against cutting with a waterjet as its really really slow to do it, just to punch a hole in 5mm thick section takes about 15min.

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    Finished ground or molded?
    One piece or a hundred?
    This would normally be a preform special.
    Ultra-met, Ceartizit in Detroit, HB Carbide, Innovative Carbide, Quality Carbide in SC..........all make performs to your print and are the places I'd normally quote.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Finished ground or molded?
    One piece or a hundred?
    This would normally be a preform special.
    Bob
    Hi Bob,

    Realistically, we're looking at onsey-twosey purchases right now, in effort to prototype cutters with. As such, I'm not overly picky about sizings and will tolerate a wide range in effort to accommodate the task at hand. Same goes for finish. Don't care, as most of it will be cut away and be a drop. In effect, it can have ANY hole up to 0.375". That's because it will fit onto a 0.375" shoulder and be secured on it. All I need is a start hole for the wire to go through so I can cut from there.

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    Saw disc blank or hack out of a STB and hole pop the starter?
    PM me a e address and I'll send you Ceratizit's stock list for this week.
    That the best way to buy small as the price is at quantity level. They do have a min order.
    If you need top and bottom ground I can help you out.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    Hi Bob,

    Realistically, we're looking at onsey-twosey purchases right now, in effort to prototype cutters with. As such, I'm not overly picky about sizings and will tolerate a wide range in effort to accommodate the task at hand. Same goes for finish. Don't care, as most of it will be cut away and be a drop. In effect, it can have ANY hole up to 0.375". That's because it will fit onto a 0.375" shoulder and be secured on it. All I need is a start hole for the wire to go through so I can cut from there.
    Quality Carbide Metals, Inc.- carbide blank manufacturing – custom carbide blanks, carbide tooling, carbide preforms, carbide nozzles, tungsten carbide manufacturing, carbide tips

    Download Current Carbide Stock Lists

    Amana A-12 12MM X12MM X1.5MM C.T KNIVES

    Those ^ are thin, but maybe they offer other thickness/sizes?

    No affiliation, just a google search.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Saw disc blank or hack out of a STB and hole pop the starter?
    PM me a e address and I'll send you Ceratizit's stock list for this week.
    That the best way to buy small as the price is at quantity level. They do have a min order.
    If you need top and bottom ground I can help you out.
    Bob
    Sent one to your ess aol addy. Thanks.

    Those two look helpful. Thanks.

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    To update this thread for future readers/searchers -

    CarbideBob got in touch and and sent me a list of what's currently available, along with what can be ordered, as well as pricing. I am very pleased with the pricing, but even happier with the fact that this all appears to be more common than one might have thought. The sizes that we'd need and be using are actually either readily available or available in a short time frame.

    Additionally, the pricing for them is actually really affordable when you think about it. So, it looks like our Custom Shaper Cutters don't even have to rely on HSS blanks any more. We can just as easily make them from Carbide, now. And that is a serious boon when considering some of the smaller Internal Spline & Gear tools we are making, given how much wear they can see.

    At this point, given what we have discovered, for the larger sizes of cutters I am seriously considering making a brazed layer tool, with Carbide backed with a Steel reinforcing backer. ( ~ 3.0" - 3.50" diameters )


    Thank you CarbideBob. I appreciate the assistance!

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    Hi Zahnrad Kopf:
    I'm curious; have you had good results with wire EDM cut carbide for cutting tools?
    I've always been disappointed with their longevity compared to ground ones.

    There have been a few threads on PM where this has been discussed, and one in particular where Carbide Bob and I got into a bit of a doctoral dissertation about root cause but I can't find it again.
    Short version is that the water dielectric leaches the cobalt out from around the corner tungsten carbide grains leaving them hanging in space where they get wiped off and booger the cutting edges.
    So the serious cutting tool and punch tool guys use oil dielectric in their wire EDM machines.
    When I was still young and cocky, I thought it was all bullshit...now not so much anymore, having wasted many hours on fancy cutting tools that didn't perform for shit because all the cutting edges crumbled prematurely.

    I've tried a few approaches, and the best I've been able to do with carbide is to wire the shape a tiny bit oversized (tenths), glass bead them and then surface grind 0.002" to 0.005" off the rake to hopefully knock off the loose tungsten carbide grains right at the cutting edge, but I still have never been thrilled with what I ended up with.

    I went back to cobalt HSS and seem to get better performance out of it than I can get from wire cut carbide.

    My GO TO grade now is REX T15...tougher than a woodpecker's lips and wire cuts just fine; I make pretty much all of my form tools out of it now.

    Food for thought before you spend a lot of money on carbide!

    Cheers

    Marcus
    Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
    Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

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    Hi Marcus,

    My experience has been largely similar to your own, indeed. Which is precisely why I am optimistic about these. One of the steps of the process to making these is to wire the forms with the upper and lower faces parallel and then AFTER completion grind the 5° Face Angle onto the lower face. So, you can see that there is even more than 0.005 removed once one gets further inward. Thus far, I've designed them to accommodate this grind stock so that upon completion of the grind, they are left at this theoretical starting point, for sizing.

    I had forgotten about your fondness of REX T15, though. And I still may look for some suitable pieces of it for my efforts. I did wire some from some M2 and M4 and quite frankly was fairly disappointed with their longevity. Rather, I should say the extreme lack of any... One of them was fairly well obliterated in short use. Not fun at all.

    Part of the appreciation for the Carbide blanks is the preexisting center hole, negating the need for hole popping. I'm very happy to minimize the steps needed to create a cutter. Plus, one of the very surprising things I discovered is that each blank is MUCH less money than one might actually think. Enough so that one can completely justify trying a handful of efforts before even getting mildly concerned. If nothing else at all, worth the price for the education.

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    With your usage of HSS for wire cut tools, have you tried any of the cast alloys such as Tantung "G"? Its tougher than carbide, and withstands heat better than other HSS. There are other brand names as well, the one thing they have in common is they are non-magnetic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    At this point, given what we have discovered, for the larger sizes of cutters I am seriously considering making a brazed layer tool ...
    Do you remember the wafer cutters ? I think Pfauter-Maag ? They were a thin carbide shaper cutter that screwed onto a heat-treated steel backup plate (also with teeth, the backup support extended out almost to the tips of the carbide.)

    The idea was you didn't have to resharp and adjust size, just swap out the wafer. Would have been kind of expensive for short runs but maybe suitable for Deetroit.

    I'd be interested to see how your small carbides hold up. I've snapped little HSS internals just by looking at them cross-eyed. Bye-bye $500

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    What I sent here were carbide saw blanks as I thought that the best fit.
    Unfinished on all surfaces so .020 stock on the holes, thickness, and OD.
    Pressed stocked items, and some sizes no longer stocked so that kind of sucked.
    Did what I could.
    Above mentioned Quality Carbide is a great source for smaller preform runs and has been very reliable.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Do you remember the wafer cutters ? I think Pfauter-Maag ? They were a thin carbide shaper cutter that screwed onto a heat-treated steel backup plate (also with teeth, the backup support extended out almost to the tips of the carbide.)
    Yep. PrecisionMetal and I briefly discussed them, earlier in the process. I may still make something similar to them, but different enough in that they could easily be resharpened. Later, though. Still much to be done, here...


    Quote Originally Posted by implmex View Post
    Hi Zahnrad Kopf:
    I'm curious; have you had good results with wire EDM cut carbide for cutting tools?
    I've always been disappointed with their longevity compared to ground ones.

    <snip the balance so as to not rehash what's been discussed already >
    ... and ...

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I'd be interested to see how your small carbides hold up. I've snapped little HSS internals just by looking at them cross-eyed. Bye-bye $500
    Well, as I suspected - so far, so WONDERFUL. Have now made a number of these with the Carbide Button Cutter that was made. There is no overtly noticable wear to the cutter. The novelty has not worn off yet, either. I am still giggling like a school girl about this. SO MANY possibilities. This is really a big deal for us.


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    Hi Zahnrad Kopf:
    Did you glass bead them to knock off the loose tungsten carbide grains before you ground the rake on them?

    Cheers

    Marcus
    Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
    Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

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    Hi Marcus,

    Wouldn't you know it...? I was rushed and thought, "This would make a good worst case scenario test..." So, it literally went from tank to grinder, and then to work. My thought regarding having to grind past those corner bits seems to be working out, so far.

    Ironically, the WEDM'd HSS tools are for shite. Edges break down faster than I can stop the machine. Very odd. Looking into that right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    What I sent here were carbide saw blanks as I thought that the best fit.
    Unfinished on all surfaces so .020 stock on the holes, thickness, and OD.
    Pressed stocked items, and some sizes no longer stocked so that kind of sucked.
    Did what I could.
    Above mentioned Quality Carbide is a great source for smaller preform runs and has been very reliable.
    Bob
    Blanks arrived today! They look great. Thank you,CarbideBob! I can't wait to make some Gear Shaper Cutters with these and test some theories. We have some VERY non standard tooth forms to make in the next few weeks, as well as a number of Skip Tooth / Skip Space type Gears and Splines. So, they'll get some use here, shortly. Very excited to take this to the next level.

    Thank you.


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