looking at getting a manual lathe

Point45 · Apr 15, 2020

Hello all, i apologize in advance if this topic has been beat to death but i cant seem to find the correct terminology to search these things out and i am pressed for time.

I have a welding shop, we haven't had a pressing need for a lathe for 15 years. But im looking at a job that would require me to drill and tap the end of roughly 1000 1/2" stainless pickets. the longest piece i can see being 42"

I have been trying to find information on what size lathe or type I would need. For some reason i cannot find information (probably because of my lack of terminology)about if all lathes and chucks will allow me to pass material thru the head stock, and how what length would it be safe, or do i need a 50" machine.

Or would i be better of setting up a tapomatic and turning my drill press into a giant jig?

DDoug · Apr 15, 2020

Point45 said:
Hello all, i apologize in advance if this topic has been beat to death but i cant seem to find the correct terminology to search these things out and i am pressed for time.

I have a welding shop, we haven't had a pressing need for a lathe for 15 years. But im looking at a job that would require me to drill and tap the end of roughly 1000 1/2" stainless pickets. the longest piece i can see being 42"

I have been trying to find information on what size lathe or type I would need. For some reason i cannot find information (probably because of my lack of terminology)about if all lathes and chucks will allow me to pass material thru the head stock, and how what length would it be safe, or do i need a 50" machine.

Or would i be better of setting up a tapomatic and turning my drill press into a giant jig?

"Or would i be better of setting up a tapomatic and turning my drill press into a giant jig"

Yes.

You want to stuff all those pickets in the headstock and take them back out for on tapped hole ?

Jaymce · Apr 15, 2020

Hope I am not off base but what about a local shop with a cnc lathe?
If you need a lathe and figure it would expand your capabilities I would think you could find one fairly easily. This coming from a guy with little experience that restores cars.

For me, my machines (Monarch 10ee and Bridgeport) are used maybe once a week and I'm far from a machinist. The ability to jump on one and get something done immediately is worth the sq footage they occupy. I may get things done a little more slowly than a capable machinist but once I factor in everything associated with getting it their and back I probably save $ even if it is not the most efficient way of doing things.

I work 2 days out of the shop and the other shop does not have a lathe or mill, its always a pain to do stuff by hand.

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Point45 · Apr 15, 2020

i think we were hoping to use this is an excuse to maybe get one to expand our capabilities and find a decent machine.

Jaymce · Apr 15, 2020

Craig's list
Face book market place
Seems line if you have the space big machines ( over 4ft) go for the same or less than smaller machines.
Bigger shops that are becoming automated in this area will scrap the bigger machines. I was offered a 20 ish inch machine for free but in a 1000sq ft shop a 10ft long machine does not make sense.

My buddy offered to get me on next time they reconfigured the shop but the deal was I would have to hire a rigger and get it moved off location within a couple hrs. For my needs too big and time constraints had me pass.

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LKeithR · Apr 15, 2020

Point45 said:
...Or would i be better of setting up a tapomatic and turning my drill press into a giant jig?

Yeah, setting up a fixture in the drill press would be a lot faster--run the pieces through once to drill and then
a second time to tap. When drilling use good sharp stub drills and you shouldn't need to centre drill.

Point45 said:
i think we were hoping to use this is an excuse to maybe get one to expand our capabilities and find a decent machine.

If a lathe is going to be a worthwhile addition to your shop you shouldn't need an excuse to buy one. We started
out as a welding shop and that's always been our primary business but we've had a lathe and a mill in the shop
for a good part of the time we've been in business. They can open up a whole different range of work and you'll
also find you're making a lot of miscellaneous bits an pieces for your own use...

Point45 · Apr 15, 2020

this job definitely seems like something we should be farming out for the parts. but in reality we still are looking to get a machine cuz im always looking for reasons to get new toys and as far as we can tell about 50 " would be the longest piece we would ever have to turn (of course i say that now....)and space is a premium. so i guess my original question would still apply as what would be the practical size machine to be looking at.

MT.Head · Apr 15, 2020

If the pieces you are going to thread are only 1/2" in dia. any size lathe could do it with a good 3 jaw chuck! The spindle dia. on a 8,9,10 lathe is big enough
to slide your 1/2" material through

michiganbuck · Apr 15, 2020

Still consider the width of the lathe head stock. A 1026 bargain brand bench top might have a head stock of 12” wide and the chuck, so perhaps 16” held safe, and 30” sticking out the left of the head stock.. Likely at drill speed and 30” of ½ stock whipping around might not be very safe.

Be sure to get a machine that might work for a 50" stock if you think that is your need...

DDoug · Apr 15, 2020

michiganbuck said:
Still consider the width of the lathe head stock. A 1026 bargain brand bench top might have a head stock of 12” wide and the chuck, so perhaps 16” held safe, and 30” sticking out the left of the head stock.. Likely at drill speed and 30” of ½ stock whipping around might not be very safe.

Be sure to get a machine that might work for a 50" stock if you think that is your need...

Yup, and I'd much rather pull on a DP handle than crank a tailstock.

As well as using a tapping head instead of trying to time the tap just right, and plug reversing the spindle just right.

michiganbuck · Apr 15, 2020

How Might you drill to the end center of ½” x 46" SS?

With having that mini lathe, you might make a jig bushing that caps over the end of your ½ ss stock with that bushing having a hole for spotting the the drill to stock center as it is held Vertical in a drill press and angle plate. You might just center punch that spot through the jig bushing... Likely get .003 /.005 close with that. Likely Pm guy would make that for you at bargain price.

Might fudge-up a steady at the back (left) of the lathe head stock of a small lathe.

A 1236 engine lathe is a decent machine..a south bend 8,9 or 10 is a decent machine...having a wide enough head stock.

Hardplates · Apr 15, 2020

If you want an engine lathe then buy an engine lathe, but it's not the correct tool for that job. As discussed a drill press would be better. A HMC with a quick and dirty fixture to hold 20 or so at a time would make quick work of said job

Tyrone Shoelaces · Apr 15, 2020

I'd be thinking about getting an old capstan lathe with a collet chuck. Face off with the cross slide, centre drill, drill, tap with the turret. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. In British terms something like an old " Ward " No 2DS or 3DS.

Regards Tyrone.

thermite · Apr 15, 2020

Hardplates said:
If you want an engine lathe then buy an engine lathe, but it's not the correct tool for that job. As discussed a drill press would be better. A HMC with a quick and dirty fixture to hold 20 or so at a time would make quick work of said job

Tyrone Shoelaces said:
I'd be thinking about getting an old capstan lathe with a collet chuck. Face off with the cross slide, centre drill, drill, tap with the turret. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. In British terms something like an old " Ward " No 2DS or 3DS.

Regards Tyrone.

If you already HAVE either the HMC, any old horizontal mill, the capstan, or most any OTHER lathe, or a DP AND tapping head that can clear and repeatably clamp four feet of stock?

Any of those can work.

But suppose you have nada? NOTHING but welding goods, fab expertise, and a wide variety of clamps, raw metal stock, drops and such?

Acquire (or temporarily "re-purpose"):

- Small drillpress

- Tapping head.

- Drills and taps

Lay the DP - or the head robbed OFF of it - onto it's side.
"Horizontally, even."

For handling 1,000 pieces of that sort of long, thin, stock, you will be glad yah did that. VERY!

Clamp, bolt, and/or weld-up a frame and support guide and clamp for the stock.

Yah prolly already HAVE a table or bench or flexible jigs and fixtures amongst which some combination can be "most of" that rig. Or even ALL of it?

Did say it was a welding and fab shop, yah? This part is already your "rice bowl", and to an expert level.

COMPLETE the silly little nuisance job.

Put the DP, clamps, metal, and s**t back to whatever else they usually doo.

Get paid!

Move on to the next challenge, please.

Getting paid is a sore useful habit to acquire.

Excessive mental masturbation? Over SMALL s**t?

Not so much!

Not that we don't DOO that...

...professional pride just sez we'd like a far more worthy EXCUSE for it than this here piddly little piss-ant of one!

Point45 · Apr 15, 2020

thankyou all for the info. appreciate the sound advice. hopefully the price will scare enough sense into the architect for a redesign......

Cheers

Hardplates · Apr 15, 2020

Point45 said:
thankyou all for the info. appreciate the sound advice. hopefully the price will scare enough sense into the architect for a redesign......

Cheers

Have you thought about getting a quote from a small machine shop? If I had time which I don't I would likely quote a couple hundred for fixturing, a hundred for programing and a buck a part. Maybe that's high, maybe its low but surely there is someone else out there that thinks the same as me......maybe.... :crazy:

thermite · Apr 15, 2020

Point45 said:
thankyou all for the info. appreciate the sound advice. hopefully the price will scare enough sense into the architect for a redesign......

Cheers

Yah mean like a bit of Tig work, no hole, no threads, no fastener?

Too easy, is that? Nevvah hoppen.

You'd have to know Architects? (two in the family, 'ere..)

michiganbuck · Apr 15, 2020

QT:I have a welding shop, we haven't had a pressing need for a lathe for 15 years. But i]

The other thing is open time..if you are near full up with welding then you won't make better wages as a new be lathe hand.
If you have free time and open shop space then playing /learning on a lathe cant hurt. Running a thousand part at +1.00 each is money. You need run 30 an hour at a buck, two minuet a drill and tap is pretty fast. What do you think the customer might pay?
likely that one run would not pay for a lathe and accessories, perhaps $2500 for Ok used.
If the customer might be good for another run is important.

Yes you might get a bid from a lathe shop to see what the going price for that work might be.
You might Drill press run the first order and save the bucks for your lathe fund...

I once met a fellow who was making big bucks with drilling small drill and taps..yes he had a feeder and ran two simple drill presses with air cylinder feed,, all hacked and fudged together but he could run so fast he was in the gravy

thermite · Apr 15, 2020

michiganbuck said:
Yes you might get a bid from a lathe shop to see what the going price for that work might be.

THIS task could even be done on the jobsite as the material was cut and fitted to length.

See "rail drill", "pipe threading machine" and waterline "hot" tapper for the back-story of pushing fab steps out to the point of need.

Then think jigs, fixtures + MODERN power tools.

Superbowl · Apr 15, 2020

Since your stock is only 1/2" it can pass through the head stock of any lathe. I would set up a pipe type support on a tripod to the rear of the head stock to keep the pickets from whipping around. Then you can insert the pickets through the pipe, into the head stock and grasp it in a three jaw chuck with only three inches or so sticking out.

looking at getting a manual lathe

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