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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by memphisjed View Post
    Repair and restore are very different operations. If it was Jane off the street walk in who wanted it fixed to ride some more and stated repair wanted then as most have said not a big deal.
    Someone who you know is going to have the welds blended to be hidden and goes thru the effort of bead then vapor blasting - and is selling the item as remachined/remanufactured or whatever billet word of the day is - then you have the responsibity to check every bearing and wiper seat, die check for cracks, and magically make sure none of the original is fatigued or diseased.

    Thank you Wheelie for pointing out the biggest issue with this project.

    ps Jay Leno can afford to have high accuracy scanning done, Leno pays less than market rate because he is wealthy/famous, Leno had an oil pan scanned - tolerance is a bolt in oversized hole.
    this would be one of the best post to put over were the op has his new post that he has started to help inform the others of what there up against

  2. #182
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    Most of the case repairs I do are not chain throws.
    More of two stokes eating pistons.
    Bob

  3. #183
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    Eight thousand four hundred and ninety two views....Yup, the new forum owners are pleased.
    Last edited by digger doug; 07-31-2021 at 07:17 PM.

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  5. #184
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    Does this product have a big problem with this?
    Is this a design flaw or just overrun chains?

    I do not think the OP's request was out of the ballpark.
    And then questions or maybe a bit of arrogance or I know this way better than you.
    So then the OP went defensive.
    The welding here is not easy and heat sinks around it needed for distortion. The machining is like falling off a log.
    Once welded nice if my young and learning helpers could not do this I'd be dope slapping them upside the head.
    If this complicated to do finish machine sit on the porch and watch the other dogs run.
    Sorry to all who will be pissed...... this is not difficult or highly skilled work.

    The OP came back not very nice so sort of looks as not a great customer and that certainly adds in a lot on the minus side.

    Welded and stuffed a case?
    Looking forward to those that have done at least 50-200 case repairs chain or blown out bottom end which is more fun.

    This is not hard to do but for sure yes a learning curve somewhere.
    The OP not so friendly, others say this is very hard to do for them.

    All is good, inserting and talks.
    Bob

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  7. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Eight thousand four hindered and ninety two views....Yup, the new owners are pleased.
    Quantity over quality. "Looking for a machinist" LMAO

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  9. #186
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    Tom tricks a bunch of boys into thinking that work – the thing that he doesn't want to do – is fun, so that he can spend the afternoon goofing off. He even get the boys to pay him for the "privilege" of painting. He turns punishment into pleasure, and pleases Aunt Polly in the process.ok so lets brake this down would aunt Polly be the op customers and tom the op and the ones that were paying for the "privilege" of painting well that would be the ones that got sucked in to doing the op machine work .

    and lets forget about this anybody can do this crap ya anybody can so if there's so much money in this then why dose the op not get a mill and do it himself oh he has one well you got yer talking done them cases are not going to machine them self's gutter done ya gutter

  10. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Does this product have a big problem with this?
    Is this a design flaw or just overrun chains?

    I do not think the OP's request was out of the ballpark.
    And then questions or maybe a bit of arrogance or I know this way better than you.
    So then the OP went defensive.
    The welding here is not easy and heat sinks around it needed for distortion. The machining is like falling off a log.
    Once welded nice if my young and learning helpers could not do this I'd be dope slapping them upside the head.
    If this complicated to do finish machine sit on the porch and watch the other dogs run.
    Sorry to all who will be pissed...... this is not difficult or highly skilled work.

    The OP came back not very nice so sort of looks as not a great customer and that certainly adds in a lot on the minus side.

    Welded and stuffed a case?
    Looking forward to those that have done at least 50-200 case repairs chain or blown out bottom end which is more fun.

    This is not hard to do but for sure yes a learning curve somewhere.
    The OP not so friendly, others say this is very hard to do for them.

    All is good, inserting and talks.
    Bob
    Bob, there are 4 bearing fits in these cases. Crank shaft, balance shaft, tranny main shaft, tranny countershaft. 5 if you include the shift drum.
    One of these bearings happens to be a very precise slip fit, and right behind the area that needs all the welding.
    I was told way back when by the two guys I knew doing these repairs that, that bore is never round after welding.
    Also the countershaft bore in these cases takes a serious pounding and a good many of them are already out of spec before you even start working on it.

    If a guy just wants to do the weld repairs and restore the seal counter-bores? And all it has to do is look good on ebay and actually be assemble-able?
    Yea, its easy!

    If the goal is a dimensionally correct repair/part? No, it is not easy (or quick) at all.

    So what is the goal? Scab it together. Or do it right? This depends on the customer. There is that individual basis thing again.
    The OP is obviously targeting the scab it together crowd. That's fine.

    Will it run after being scabbed together? Chances are yea. The question is, for how long.

    We haven't even mentioned air leaks from warped cases yet. Lucky Honda uses a gasket. If this was a Yamaha or Suzuki, you would be screwed from go (no gasket).
    Air leak = roached piston/cylinder in no time flat. Wait until the first time you are trying to diagnose a bad lean condition that is acting exactly like an air-leak.
    But you cant find it. Eventually you figure out it is sucking air from the tranny vent. That one damn near stumped me, LOL

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  12. #188
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    It isn't really a difficult repair. There are very few repairs I've ever done that were difficult. Time consuming, yes. Complicated, yes. Difficult, no. Maybe difficult for a first timer if they don't understand what's going to happen when the case is welded. In my experience heat sinks will not stop the case from warping, neither will a clamped together fixture. I've used both. They will reduce the movement, but not eliminate it.

    This is a more complicated repair than meets the eye. Just slapping some weld on and putting one hole back in place will not get this case back to print. So that becomes the question. Do these guys want their cases repaired the right way, or do they just want some weld slapped on and a hole put back in and they don't care if they have to bang it back together with a hammer because the other bores moved? Or if the bearings now wear out 10 times faster because they're in a bind? Or if the engine has now got a lean condition because the case is warped, and two strokes need to have sealed airtight cases to run right. Etc. etc.

    I know how I would do the job - and how I would want it done by someone else if it was going on my bike. Anyone else can do what they want.

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  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Eight thousand four hundred and ninety two views....Yup, the new forum owners are pleased.
    who are the "new forum owners"?

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Eight thousand four hundred and ninety two views....Yup, the new forum owners are pleased.
    Doug, what do you think these forum websites are for ? Talk about machining among professionals ? Ha. That was a way to the goal, not the goal.

    Sorry to break it to you, but this ain't Berners-Lee's world wide web no more. Hasn't been for a long long time.

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  17. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKretz View Post
    ... Do these guys want their cases repaired the right way, or do they just want some weld slapped on and a hole put back in ....
    Or, does the OP want to sucker somebody in to do a bullshit fix on them for cheap so he can sell them and make lots of money? Not a bad business model overall - buy low and sell high.

  18. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Or, does the OP want to sucker somebody in to do a bullshit fix on them for cheap so he can sell them and make lots of money? Not a bad business model overall - buy low and sell high.
    Like I said: "all it has to do is look good on ebay".

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Like I said: "all it has to do is look good on ebay".
    lipstick on a pig or in this case ky on a sucker

  20. #194
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    My favorite all time case repair was on a buddies R6 track bike, we didn't take anything apart, I just welded it up tipped on its side and back to pounding laps

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  22. #195
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    Is any repair as good as new?
    Sometimes there are repairs that fix design problems so maybe better.
    That is not common.
    An auto engine will go 250,000 miles out of the factory. Ask a rebuilder for the same.
    So there is maybe a whole lot of levels of "good" in repair work and perhaps that should be understood.

    How many have the CMM and gauges to check to factory print here or even have the factory prints? I will guess none.
    If you did what does that do to price?
    Bob

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  24. #196
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    "Is any repair as good as new"?

    Does it have to be good as new...or meet some sort of performance spec, or perform to some defined level of servicability?

    Might be better to decide if the Jap casting is repairable---apparanly someone thinks so.

    In the end economics dictate the repair scheme.

  25. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Is any repair as good as new?
    Sometimes there are repairs that fix design problems so maybe better.
    That is not common.
    An auto engine will go 250,000 miles out of the factory. Ask a rebuilder for the same.
    So there is maybe a whole lot of levels of "good" in repair work and perhaps that should be understood.

    How many have the CMM and gauges to check to factory print here or even have the factory prints? I will guess none.
    If you did what does that do to price?
    Bob
    Yes. And as you suggest, some better.

    Otherwise, exactly...................

    I talked to an old buddy of mine that I hadn't heard from in a long time last night. This thread made me think about him, as he still plays with 250Rs.
    He is a 3-wheeler guy (hill shooter). But it is the same basic engine. I gave him a ring. we caught up. I sent him a link to this thread.
    He scanned through it as we BS'ed. We had a good laugh. He isn't a member of PM because he is not a machinist (plastic injection molding tech).
    But he is well aware of how long these cases live if not repaired properly. And the first step is pre-inspection to determine the work needed.
    There is that damn "individual basis" thing again.
    Last edited by wheelieking71; 08-01-2021 at 06:21 PM.

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  27. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    "Is any repair as good as new"?

    Does it have to be good as new...or meet some sort of performance spec, or perform to some defined level of servicability?

    Might be better to decide if the Jap casting is repairable---apparanly someone thinks so.

    In the end economics dictate the repair scheme.
    These are super high quality die-castings. Unless it is catastrophic? Most can probably be repaired, budget willing.

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    Repairing cases is a complete waste of time. The welder thinks that he solved the problem, but the distortion and the poor quality of the casting itself turns the machinist job impossible.

    So what should anyone do?

    Buy a new one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    These are super high quality die-castings. Unless it is catastrophic? Most can probably be repaired, budget willing.
    "Budget willing"....There it is..gearhead fantasies dashed with an incredulous "how much"???????

    Many versions of the same story no matter what the interest.....

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