Lucas horizontal floor mill spindle retrofit

Greg Adams · Feb 15, 2016

Hi all, new here and this is my first post. Thanks in advance for any help! We have a Lucas horizontal floor mill that has went down on us. It is a model 41B2620, 4" spindle with what I am assuming is a NMTB taper. Very similar to CAT or BT but with a staight shoulder beyond the taper on the tooling. My problem is that our power draw system has went down and we are looking at 15-$20,000 to rebuild it through Lucas. I dont think we paid that for the machine. Is it feasible to replace the spindle we have with a morse taper spindle? I havent had much luck finding used parts or any comments by someone who has done something like this before. Again thanks in advance for any and all help

Matt_Maguire · Feb 15, 2016

Generally the drawbar motor quits or the drawbar pulls apart (stud) or the control goes toes up. No part of that is 15-20K. Worst case is a motor rebuild.

You need the parts manual for DUY, or a repair house that's close or is more reasonable. Lucas will put all the wear parts of the drawbar system "as new".

Good luck
Matt

Greg Adams · Feb 15, 2016

Drawbar is completely disassembled and we have a quote from Lucas

Thomas Paine · Feb 15, 2016

if you fix it yourself it will be much easier the second time.

malcolm rypauf · Feb 15, 2016

The NMTB taper is a bunch more common on milling type tool-holders. IMHO going to a Morse taper spindle might be considered something of a regression.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Feb 15, 2016

Greg Adams said:
Drawbar is completely disassembled and we have a quote from Lucas

Is it made from platinum ? Sounds a lot of money for a drawbar.
How difficult would it be to make or repair ? Photos would help.

Regards Tyrone.

dian · Feb 15, 2016

why would you want to change the spindle and why go to another taper, when the power draw bar stoped working? how long can you change the tools manually for $ 20 000?

maybe check with kurt, they sell different kits for around $1000.

gbent · Feb 15, 2016

First choice would be to repair what is broken and leave the merely worn in place. My guess is only one or two parts are truly worn out or broken. You need a good repairman.

There are various quick change systems that could be adapted if you switch your machine to a manual draw bar. I have an adapter with a Cat #50 male, with a #40 Cat female. The tool changes are made at the spindle nose with a 3/8 turn of a hook spanner like an Erickson QC, only with a different flange.

Otherwise for that money buy a clapped out machine with a working power draw bar. When you gotta run junk, you gotta have a lot of it.

Greg Adams · Feb 15, 2016

There were alot of worn parts in the drawbar system. We do have another mill with a morse taper spindle and a CAT 50 adapter which is what I wanted to go to with this mill. We wont be spending $20,000 for a power draw! The spindle is out of the machine and I looked at it briefly and thought it looked like a fairly simple swap to a morse taper so we could use the apapter in it. These are schematics, I will get pics soon.

JRIowa · Feb 15, 2016

Don't go to a morse taper, as others have said, it's a step backwards.

What size NMTB taper is it. If you were going to change, go to CAT. The taper is the same, but the drawbar would be slightly different.

What's your budget for fixing the machine? You don't want to spend $20K do you think the parts should be free?

I'm thinking that the best way to go would be to convert to CAT and a hydraulic drawbar instead of the mechanical. You probably aren't looking at any less than the $20K.
JR

Greg Adams · Feb 15, 2016

I know its a step backwards and I do not expect anything to be free, I dont know why you would say that? Machine has a 50 taper now and the only reason I would go to a morse taper would be cost. Like I stated before we have another machine that is morse taper with a CAT 50 adapter in it. I would also be fine with a manual draw on the NMTB we currently have. Before anyone says it yes Im quite aware the power draw is better and the CAT is more readily available but this machine has been in use here, i dont know before it got here, for 40+years. I want to get the machine going again and not going to spend that kind of money on it. Has anyone here ever converted back to a manual on a floor mill? Where would I aquire parts?

Greg Adams · Feb 15, 2016

dian said:
why would you want to change the spindle and why go to another taper, when the power draw bar stoped working? how long can you change the tools manually for $ 20 000?

maybe check with kurt, they sell different kits for around $1000.

I want to change the tools manually! Kurt has draw systems for knee mills

Garwood · Feb 15, 2016

Why can't you fix what's broken and put it back in service?

It looks like it uses a pull stud in an NMTB holder.

Normally a pullstud system uses grabbers and a stack of springs to hold the tool in and hydraulic or pneumatic power to release the grabbers and eject the tool.

That's what it looks like in your pictures, maybe a bit more complex.

Greg White · Feb 16, 2016

20 large aint that much for Bmil repair?,
Get er fixed and go back to work?
Gw

Greg Adams · Feb 16, 2016

This is a floor mill not a knee mill

tdmidget · Feb 16, 2016

What is a "floor" mill?

Zonko · Feb 16, 2016

Sheesh, just wtf. You haven't even told people what's actually broken.

Even at a really high shop rate, 20000 buys QUITE SOME TIME. Do you sincerely believe that it would take something like 100 hours to make those parts inhouse, can't believe that,

Greg Adams · Feb 16, 2016

Zonko said:
Sheesh, just wtf. You haven't even told people what's actually broken.

Even at a really high shop rate, 20000 buys QUITE SOME TIME. Do you sincerely believe that it would take something like 100 hours to make those parts inhouse, can't believe that,

Sheesh WTF are you talking about, the drawbar is broken and it would take well over 100 hours to make all the parts. Did you even look at the schematics? BELIEVE IT! Back to the original question!! Has anyone replaced a NMTB spindle with a morse taper? OR set up a manual draw on a boring mill?

dkmc · Feb 16, 2016

Greg Adams said:
Like I stated before we have another machine that is morse taper with a CAT 50 adapter in it.

PLEASE post a picture of that adapter!
I am VERY curious how the CAT tooling is retained in
that adapter.
Thank you.

Greg Adams · Feb 16, 2016

Here is the adapter. Morse taper spindle with a wedge lock. CAT tooling goes in and couple turns of a allen wrench pulls tool into adapter. Thanks for everybodys help but I dont seem to be getting any closer to an answer to my question.

Lucas horizontal floor mill spindle retrofit

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