Machining silver steel.

homebrew.357 · Feb 13, 2018

Hi all, I`m lathe turning some .500" round silver steel using HSS cutters and would like to know how to get a good surface finish. It`s for a rifling head cutter so needs a good smooth finish. Have oil/water coolant and or cutting oil, just can't seem to get a nice finish. thanks, Homebrew.357.

Spruewell · Feb 14, 2018

The Machinists handbook should have information in feeds and speeds for this material. You could also try the tables on these sites:

Cutting Speeds - LittleMachineShop.com

Silver Steel Cutting Speeds – glue-it.com

You also need to make sure your cutter is sharp and on center.

thermite · Feb 14, 2018

homebrew.357 said:
Hi all, I`m lathe turning some .500" round silver steel using HSS cutters and would like to know how to get a good surface finish. It`s for a rifling head cutter so needs a good smooth finish. Have oil/water coolant and or cutting oil, just can't seem to get a nice finish. thanks, Homebrew.357.

"silver steel" was once simple. Air, water, oil hardening. No longer so simple. First you need to know WHICH.

Then there is HSS. IF one is a crackerjack shaper-of, finish grinder of, and final honer of, knows the angles, the TP settings, feeds DOC, and all that and WHICH HSS for what work? Cheaper than carbides.

If not yet so expert?

Either:

Learn that. Millions before you did so.

Else:

Ask for recommendation, that metal, an insert maker and code known to work well, and at what RPM/SFM, feed, DOC, and coolant, if any.

Just go and buy that carbide insert maker and code, duplicate the usage guidance, grind NOTHING at all.

HSS is flexible and willing stuff.

It still arrives as just unshaped metal. It cannot take end goals as "mission type orders" on its own. YOU have to do ALL of that FOR it as to selecting, shaping, setting, and the parameters of its use.

Page two:

Legacy HSS users were also accustomed to doing final finish with files and abrasives. Often.

Users of modern inserted carbides? Near as dammit never.

awake · Feb 14, 2018

Bill, have you decided to retire the Monarchist persona?

thermite · Feb 14, 2018

awake said:
Bill, have you decided to retire the Monarchist persona?

Sumbody offers you that he'll direct Milacron to smack you with a site-wide BAN for pissing-off a special person and won't tell you even in which forum, day, subject even when ASKED? Not as if there was any SHORTAGE of snowflakes I'd pissed-off, was there?

You just deletes every post you can still touch, all forums, all subjects, and lays the offending ID low. "Permanently" still TBD.

Ain't really worth any further fuss, after all, is it? Always did have another life. Still do. BFD.

MrStretch · Feb 14, 2018

Whatever. Same unreadable noise.

Benta · Feb 14, 2018

If it's the same silver steel that I know from over here (1.2210 or 115CrV3), it machines wonderfully and always yields a beautiful surface (many times better than mild steel).
If you have problems, you'll need to look at the geometry/sharpness of your cutters.

Limy Sami · Feb 14, 2018

IME Finish quality varies widely form manufacturer to manufacturer and batch to batch and some just will not mschine cleanly.

As others have said, don't be afraid to use emery cloth, stones etc etc,

Also - if you're new to sil steel, it can distort AND permanently change size in heat treat,

Have fun

Benta · Feb 14, 2018

Limy Sami said:
IME Finish quality varies widely form manufacturer to manufacturer and batch to batch and some just will not mschine cleanly.

As others have said, don't be afraid to use emery cloth, stones etc etc,

Also - if you're new to sil steel, it can distort AND permanently change size in heat treat,

Have fun

The quality problems "manufacturer to manufacturer, batch to batch" must be a UK issue (like cars), I've never experienced it here.
I still suspect a HSS geometry/height problem.

That apart, abrasives are NOT the solution in this case.

awake · Feb 14, 2018

thermite said:
Sumbody offers you that he'll direct Milacron to smack you with a site-wide BAN for pissing-off a special person and won't tell you even in which forum, day, subject even when ASKED? Not as if there was any SHORTAGE of snowflakes I'd pissed-off, was there?

You just deletes every post you can still touch, all forums, all subjects, and lays the offending ID low. "Permanently" still TBD.

Ain't really worth any further fuss, after all, is it? Always did have another life. Still do. BFD.

Guess I missed that post. But I wouldn't think anyone here would be in a position to "direct" Milacron to do anything he didn't choose to do!

thermite · Feb 14, 2018

Benta said:
That apart, abrasives are NOT the solution in this case.

For what he is making? Very probably will be, back door if not front door.

It`s for a rifling head cutter so needs a good smooth finish.

Grinding after best job of heat treat he can accomplish, use the best one out of three made, etc.

Takes a while of doin' before one can hope to nail all that in one go without at least a decent - and very old-shoe-familiar - muffle furnace, hence seldom ever making but the one, small goods most especially.

PS: "Batch to batch" variations don't have to be even a detectable change in the Chemistry of a steel.

Just as likely some of it is arriving with different heat-treat.

Sparky961 · Feb 14, 2018

I've found that the faster you can turn it the better. Carbide inserts are required here because you'll wreck the edge of a HSS tool at the speeds I'm talking about (800-1000 SFM isn't unreasonable). The stuff I've worked with has varied from batch to batch as well. If you're spinning as fast as your tool allows and still getting a crappy finish, cut if a thou or two oversize and polish it to size. If you're hardening it, leave some on to polish it post heat treat.

Miguels244 · Feb 14, 2018

thermite said:
Sumbody offers you that he'll direct Milacron to smack you with a site-wide BAN for pissing-off a special person and won't tell you even in which forum, day, subject even when ASKED? Not as if there was any SHORTAGE of snowflakes I'd pissed-off, was there?

You just deletes every post you can still touch, all forums, all subjects, and lays the offending ID low. "Permanently" still TBD.

Ain't really worth any further fuss, after all, is it? Always did have another life. Still do. BFD.

Musta pissed in some ones wheaties but good.

TDegenhart · Feb 14, 2018

I liked thermite better any way.

Tom

NAST555 · Feb 15, 2018

TDegenhart said:
I liked thermite better any way.

Tom

I think so did John Welden

Yeah, silver steel machines really nicely. If you are getting a bad finish the first thing I would look at is your HSS geometry. Even if you are running too slow it should still give a decent finish.

gregormarwick · Feb 15, 2018

MrStretch said:
Whatever. Same unreadable noise.

Unreadable?

Perhaps you are just lacking in basic reading comprehension skills.

Benta · Feb 15, 2018

I'm lost here, and I don't really want to know. If someone has a gripe, take it where it belongs. It does not help the asker, and it quite evidently attracts trolls for a ride-along.
This is technical forum.

thermite · Feb 15, 2018

Sparky961 said:
I've found that the faster you can turn it the better. Carbide inserts are required here because you'll wreck the edge of a HSS tool at the speeds I'm talking about (800-1000 SFM isn't unreasonable). The stuff I've worked with has varied from batch to batch as well. If you're spinning as fast as your tool allows and still getting a crappy finish, cut if a thou or two oversize and polish it to size. If you're hardening it, leave some on to polish it post heat treat.

True as far as it goes, but he isn't needing to make his bones on how many thousand a day are spat out. He needs exactly ONE "good one". I say three for insurance, DIY heat-treat being a tad unpredictable.

For that, with HSS, he can go in the opposite direction. Lower SFM, speeds, feeds, DOC.

The edge - on a part this small - won't be 'wrecked". It will be just fine, pass after pass, and perhaps even part after part for but one to three units.

Beside.. not everyone doing one-of anything even has the spindle RPM & HP, nor machine-tool rigidity to utilize Carbides effectively.

We haven't asked, and mayhap should not, but if, for example, that lathe were to be one you'd not strain overmuch to just pick up and set down on a different part of the kitchen countertop?

That poses a challenge for anything BUT a file. Only so smooth a surface any tool and geometry can deliver if the machinery under it is wandering about.

Sparky961 · Feb 15, 2018

We haven't asked, and mayhap should not, but if, for example, that lathe were to be one you'd not strain overmuch to just pick up and set down on a different part of the kitchen countertop?

That poses a challenge for anything BUT a file. Only so smooth a surface any tool and geometry can deliver if the machinery under it is wandering about.

Ya, sorry, I was assuming he's using a real machine. You know, like the ones that are supposed to be discussed on this forum.

thermite · Feb 16, 2018

Sparky961 said:
Ya, sorry, I was assuming he's using a real machine. You know, like the ones that are supposed to be discussed on this forum.

Only if the "machine" IS discussed is there a distinction.

OP has correctly restricted himself to a metal, tooling, and techniques for working it.

Mind -if he pops back in and sez he's running his HSS on a Nebel Microturn?

We be the ones egg-faced!

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