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Machining weld repair

Cr480mx

Plastic
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Hi could do with some advise, I recently did a repair job on a hydraulic cylinder which the rod eye was worn out, welded it up and then bored it back out to size on my parkson mill with boring head using carbide insert to accept original brass bush, I kept boring bar as short as possible but really struggled to get a good finish! High spots in bore due to hard weld etc, what’s your thoughts on this repair? Should I have anealed the rod end after welding? I left it to cool on it’s own, didn’t put it in water etc..
Any advise would be appreciated
Regards
Tom.
 
Weld areas like this can get very hard. Best is to use grinding rather than machining. Heating to 300C and letting cool can soften the welds, but not always. In fact just the other day I had a part that just will not get annealed no matter what.
 
Weld areas like this can get very hard. Best is to use grinding rather than machining. Heating to 300C and letting cool can soften the welds, but not always. In fact just the other day I had a part that just will not get annealed no matter what.

Think I’ll try that next time but I was concerned I may damage chrome on the rod if I heat it too much!? I welded it with mig, would it be any better stick welding it? Do you get low temp welding rods for softer weld??
 
I use only tig with 70-S2 filler for steel welding/repairs. Alloy steels and cast iron can form dead hard alloys at the weld. After welding I wire brush area and heat to light blue colour (corresponding to 270-300C) and let cool slowly. Heating the welded area to 300 is much lower than the heat during welding, so nothing to worry about (with some parts I heat the whole in a muffle furnace to 600C and let cool overnight).If the part needs to be hardened, it should be re-heat-treated after welding and machining. As mentioned, some of the welds, and depending on the part's alloy, are very difficult to anneal. In general I think tig can produce better results as the argon shielding will produce a cleaner weld and possibly leave it softer.
 
first thing is to clean off all grease.really clean.pre heat until warm/
Weld with 7018.chip all slag off between weld passes.cool slowly.go have a cup of tea or two.Bore.Also make sure no snap rings or pieces of snap ring
is stuck in there if one was used to retain the bushing.Weld over that and you are infor a fun time.
 
As stated above, Pre heating before welding followed by slow cooling is the way to go, ......makes that bitch of a job almost pleasurable.
 
They make bore welders what will put the nicest mig weld in there, however unless you do allot of it, it's a no go.
So if you hand welded it, I would go in with a die grinder & stone
to get rid of the lumps & high spots.

Carbide on the boring head ?

I would have ground up a sharp HSS bit, with very little nose radius, until I get the bore all cleaned up, then re-grind the
tool with a larger nose radius.
 
Clean metal TIG and ER70 filler and lifes easy. Mig use a low CO2 gas, less carbon, less hardness and the clean still matters, use the lowest grade softest wire you have. Think take a flap wheel at least to the bore pre weld and between passes really saves some grief same on shaft build up. Slow cool down always helps and on larger work some pre heat is also good practice even if not strictly essential.

Stick is always the worst option, slags hell, build up generally the least even and slow deposition rate AVOID it like the plague if your the poor sod thats gotta cut it!!!!

Boreing or turning, i find rough to size then switch insert corner at a minimum. Really helps if you have been generous on the build up and have - get a good 1/16" bellow surface of the weld.
 
Wow thanks for all your help guys, I had asked my local welding supplier if he did a softer wire for mig but he said any weld would be hard! :confused:
They make bore welders what will put the nicest mig weld in there, however unless you do allot of it, it's a no go.
So if you hand welded it, I would go in with a die grinder & stone
to get rid of the lumps & high spots.

Carbide on the boring head ?

I would have ground up a sharp HSS bit, with very little nose radius, until I get the bore all cleaned up, then re-grind the
tool with a larger nose radius.
I tried it with HSS but my boring bar was to long! Too much chatter,it was getting blunt real quick that’s why I went to carbide as I had a shorter one of these.
 
Having done this work for a few years everyday, the best way to repair this kind of damage is either:

A. Make a totally new eye, cut the old one off and weld on the new one.

B. Bore out the eye oversize 1/4" or so, make up a steel bushing that is either a press or heat shrink fit into it and then TIG weld the ends in place to make it permanent. You can make the steel bushing .050 smaller than your bronze bearing bushing and bore it out for proper fit after the steel repair is welded in.

Welding up the hole and trying to bore it back to size would be my absolute last resort. I have used both methods above on rods and tubes of all sized with a 100% survival rate.
 
For a first attempt I was happy with the end result and saved our customer a few quid..
Learnt a lot in the process, 1st mistake was not putting enough weld in the first time, started boring to size then realised needed more weld which meant setting it back up again:angry:
Next time I’ll preheat it more then try to anneal it as you all suggest.
Once again thanks for all your help guys, much appreciated
Regards
Tom..
 
Wow thanks for all your help guys, I had asked my local welding supplier if he did a softer wire for mig but he said any weld would be hard! :confused:
I tried it with HSS but my boring bar was to long! Too much chatter,it was getting blunt real quick that’s why I went to carbide as I had a shorter one of these.
What in the hell ?

Shortest, biggest bar you can get stuffed in there is the answer.
The rough un-even weld needs rigidity, and a sharp cutter to reduce deflection forces.
Yes, with HSS you will need to resharpen a couple of times, so what ?

You do what you need to do, to get that bore cleaned up.

Then you can switch to the fancy stuff, and take things out to size.
 
Having done this work for a few years everyday, the best way to repair this kind of damage is either:

A. Make a totally new eye, cut the old one off and weld on the new one.

B. Bore out the eye oversize 1/4" or so, make up a steel bushing that is either a press or heat shrink fit into it and then TIG weld the ends in place to make it permanent. You can make the steel bushing .050 smaller than your bronze bearing bushing and bore it out for proper fit after the steel repair is welded in.

Welding up the hole and trying to bore it back to size would be my absolute last resort. I have used both methods above on rods and tubes of all sized with a 100% survival rate.
Hi Mike
I was going to do it this way but thought the welding method would be better!
I thought that boring it larger would weaken the rod eye??
One problem I came across was getting it bored to an interference fit, I was frightened I took too much out and was sneaking up on final size to make bush tight! It was a 50mm bush how much smaller should I have bored it?
 
Given you are only expanding the bore by 1/4" or so overall, and then replacing the lost material with a press fit steel bushing, it shouldn't appreciably affect the strength of the eye at all, unless it was very small, in which case you just make a new eye. If it's a simple cylindrical shaped eye, just make a new one and weld it on. If it is a forged eye on a big excavator boom cylinder or such, then you bush it as above.

Best technique on the boring and bushing is to bore first, then make your bushing. If your hole comes out a few thousandths too big or small, you can make the bushing to accommodate a lot easier than you can bore out another couple of thou in one pass.

My technique for boring fits is to just whack away until the last .050". Then one pass to take .020" and three at .010. The first .010 lets you work out the chatter and takes the spring out. The 2nd .010 pass is going to be honest, with no remaining spring to account for. Last .010 is to get it right on. You can make that pass anywhere from .007 to about .013 without having to worry about it missing by more than about .001.

The bigger the bore in the eye, the better a shrink fit works. If you have a 3" pin (say 75mm), you can take that out to 3 1/4" for the bushing (83-85mm) and be able to get about .015 expansion on the hole with 400 degrees F on the heat. Bore the eye 3.250 or there abouts. Make your bushing OD 3.255". You can easily shrink that in, then weld the sides with TIG to seal it in.

Now, if you leave the bore .050" or so under, you can line back up and bore the new bushing to the 3" OD for your original size bronze bushing. If it lands .002 too small on the last check, leave it alone and polish .002 off the OD of the bronze bushing. A lot easier than trying to skim .002 off the bore and risking it going a couple of thousandths over, leaving the bronze bushing loose.
 
I agree with the cleaning of all the grease out idea. Used to repair the center or span locks on bridges by building the wear surfaces up with weld. If you didn't make sure all the grease was gone from the corners and the lube points and started welding, the heat would draw it into the weld and it was like machining glass. In our situation we used a work hardening hard facing rod. Not sure what hardness out of the box it was but it was still machinable.
 
Hi could do with some advise, I recently did a repair job on a hydraulic cylinder which the rod eye was worn out, welded it up and then bored it back out to size on my parkson mill with boring head using carbide insert to accept original brass bush, I kept boring bar as short as possible but really struggled to get a good finish! High spots in bore due to hard weld etc, what’s your thoughts on this repair? Should I have anealed the rod end after welding? I left it to cool on it’s own, didn’t put it in water etc..
Any advise would be appreciated
Regards
Tom.

.
often cast items are ductile iron which alloy mix and heat treatment is effected by welding and normally welding is not recommended on ductile iron parts
.
i have seen signs on tractors and back hoes. ductile iron do not weld
.
sorry but in general weld repair is not recommended
 








 
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