Herbert no.5 lathe

Does anyone know what oil is used in the herbert no.5 preoptive turret lathe? It will run for a little while and then it will shut down. I asked an electrician friend of mine and he said that a safety switch is timing out and we both think it is due to low oil. But i cant find anywhere, what type of oil to put in the head of the lathe.

I take it you don't have a manual. There are a couple of guys here that have Herbert 4 turret lathes..maybe they have a manual. I used to own a no. 4 but have no clue what oil I used been so long ago.

Milacron

No unfortunately we dont have the manual. Thanks anyways, ill have to keep looking!

I know a guy who I think still has a manual for the " Herbert no 4 " although he has got rid of the lathe. I can find out if you're desperate to know what the manufacturers recommend. I think he used the normal grade of gearbox oil, nothing fancy. Only problem is I know the handbook dates from 1954, chances are you can't get any of the oils they mention now. Any thinnish gearbox oil would be a big improvement on no oil at all.
Regards Tyrone.

I called around at my pals place today and borrowed his handbook for the old " Herbert 4 lathe " he had. It has a lot to say about headstock oils that I can't be bothered repeating. The gist of it is this - " Oil for Headstocks, Feed Boxes, and for general lubrication of machine tools should contain pure mineral base oil with no vegetable or animal oil and no form of soap or solid matter such has graphite, in suspension.

The viscosity of the oil as registered by a No 1 Redwood Viscometer should be between 1,000 and 1,300 seconds at 60 degrees F or between 650 and 900 seconds at 70 degrees F "

" The following is a typical specification of the oil suitable for machine tool lubrication -

Specific Gravity at 60 degrees C----------- 0.920 to 0.935.
Redwood No 1 Viscosity at 70 F-----------650 to 900 secs.
Redwood No 1 Viscosity at 140 F----------100 secs.
Redwood No 1 Viscosity at 200 F----------45 secs.
Closed Flash Point--------------------------360 F.
Pour Point-----------------------------------10 F.
Free Fatty Acid----------------------------- Nil.
Ash -----------------------------------------Trace.

We recommend and use " Circol " headstock oil for use in all our headstocks and feed boxes etc . "


That's it guys, pick the bones out of that ! I must say " Circol " doesn't ring any bells with me.

To be honest I can't see how the oil level will be tripping out the electrics on your lathe unless it's completely empty and on the verge of seizing up. I don't recall an electrical low level switch on my pals lathe, just a gallery type sight glass on top of the headstock. I do remember the flow through the sight glass being very substantial though.

Regards Tyrone.

Manchine12V said:

Does anyone know what oil is used in the herbert no.5 preoptive turret lathe? It will run for a little while and then it will shut down. I asked an electrician friend of mine and he said that a safety switch is timing out and we both think it is due to low oil. But i cant find anywhere, what type of oil to put in the head of the lathe.

Click to expand...

The manual I have for a No 4 Preoptive, which as far as I am aware has an almost identical headstock to a number No 5, gives a list of equivalent oils to Circol (Herbert's own brand headstock oil)

I choose Vitrea 33 from the list and this corresponds to Vitrea 68 using the modern, VG viscosity designation. I managed to obtain a 45 gallon drum of Vitrea 68 a couple of years ago. Vitrea 33 is specified as the principle gearbox/headstock oil for a number of my other machines too, which is why I bought a whole drum.

Now Shell are discontinuing many of their old oils, indeed when I bought my drum of Vitrea it appeared to be the last one in stock. However, if you can't find Vitrea don't despair, all you need for your lathe is a generic VG 68 gear oil, preferably one without too many EP additives. The latter have a habit of eating though certain metals (yellow metals specifically).

I use Vitrea in the headstock of my preoptive, but for the slideways I use an oil designed for the task: Castrol Magna BD68. This oil is easy to obtain, at least in the UK, but once again if unobtainable any brand of VG 68 slideway oil will do. Shell still do Tonna 68 for instance. I use BD68 in the two aprons of my Herbert and also in the aprons of all my other lathes. I also tend to use it at all the remote oiling points. It's my normal oil can fill in fact.

I hope this helps.

Another source for oils that don't have the additives that eat bronze bearings is companies that sell oils for classic motorcycles.

" Magna BD " That brings back some memories. Regards Tyrone.

Obviously from the oil specifications, they were using an oil that was not temperature stabilized. Those Redwood numbers would give you something like an ISO-220 at room temp and an ISO-10 at 200.

I would assume that they #5 does not have a very high spindle speed. Probably way less than 1,000 RPM. Let me know the max spindle speed and I can help a little more. Right now, I'm thinking an ISO-68 R&O hydraulic oil.
JR

Apart from Vitrea 33, I have just noticed in the manual for my preoptive that it also specifies: Mobil Vactra Heavy Medium as another equivalent to Circol. I think this oil, or a near equivalent is still available from Mobil and may be easier to source than vitrea in the North America. Other equivalents listed are

B.P. Energol EM100 by The Power Pretroleum Co Ltd (presumably a previous incarnation of BP)
Perfecto NN by Castrol
Cosmolubric H by Edgar Vaughan Ltd

N McG

Mobil Vactra heavy medium is an ISO-68 R&O circulating oil. It is available, but don't know what size containers you are able to purchase.

Mobil DTE Heavy medium would be the same grade and the next step up with anti wear additives would be Mobil DTE 26. Those 2 are probably the easiest to find.
JR

I had the same question max rpm is 1500 would you still go with iso-68

A R&O 68 is what you need..................we used it in everything......lathes ,mills ,screw compressor,cranes,hydraulics in trucks..........the R&O means rust and oxidation stabilize.....and it sheds water ...doesnt emulsify,so any buildup of water in gearboxes can simply be drained off without loss of oil.........the steam turbine grade is the best hydraulic oil you can buy.