Material selection needed for bearing press / punch
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  1. #1
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    Default Material selection needed for bearing press / punch

    I have a customer that sells aftermarket parts to the antique automotive industry. One part he recently wanted me to make looks like a wheel bearing press, without the cup screwed on the end.

    Its just a rod that is turned down in a few spots for the bearing to have a wall to sit against.

    I guess some samples of a lesser material did not hold up to the challenge. Keep in mind this will be used by people who shouldnt be working on cars. I am sure they will get hammered on and thrown around quite a bit.

    My dad says A2 and S7 was always too expensive and he wasnt really interested in it. I was thinking a 4140 would machine nice enough and be heat treatable to a decent hardness.

    I need suggestions. We Run Brown and Sharpe screw machines.

    Thanks,

    -Dan

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    1018 carburized as long as there aren't any thin sections.

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    What about prehard and skip the heat treatment?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    What about prehard and skip the heat treatment?
    That would be quick and easy. In that state square edges will ding fairly easily when dropped or thrown around in a tool box. Proper edge bevels will help there.

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    The difference between 4140 and a-2 is about 1.50 a pound so really not much difference in the long run if the quality is that much better
    Don


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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    1018 carburized as long as there aren't any thin sections.
    I believe 1018 was used on some samples and ended up not holding up to our liking. My dad recommended heat treating them so they can be used as "punches" or "chisels". Tossed around in peoples tool boxes and dropped all the time is expected.

    The heat treatment company local to me can pretty much do anything. I have asked him over the years to quote random jobs and he always comes back with a quote.

    I know there is a line where "Toughness" crosses with "Hardness". I dont need it being brittle.

    I would imagine 1018 would work if heat treated. Easy enough to machine.

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    I would discuss with your heat treating company. They would be the experts.

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    any kind of heat treatable steel. up to about 50 hrc it will get dinged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanASM View Post
    I believe 1018 was used on some samples and ended up not holding up to our liking. My dad recommended heat treating them so they can be used as "punches" or "chisels". Tossed around in peoples tool boxes and dropped all the time is expected.

    The heat treatment company local to me can pretty much do anything. I have asked him over the years to quote random jobs and he always comes back with a quote.

    I know there is a line where "Toughness" crosses with "Hardness". I dont need it being brittle.

    I would imagine 1018 would work if heat treated. Easy enough to machine.
    Carburizing is not exactly heat treating. It's case hardening.

    The 1018 parts I have carburized are 55-62 RC and the case can be as deep as .020", but just a few thou works best for my stuff.

    Downside to carburizing is you need a post carb op to remove the shmutz from the surface. I have parts wheelabrated then black oxide or zinc finished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    Carburizing is not exactly heat treating. It's case hardening.

    The 1018 parts I have carburized are 55-62 RC and the case can be as deep as .020", but just a few thou works best for my stuff.

    Downside to carburizing is you need a post carb op to remove the shmutz from the surface. I have parts wheelabrated then black oxide or zinc finished.
    I always wondered about the "shmutz" (perfect word for it) when I pick up parts from black ox. We have a few parts that are 12L14, and they require case hardening .010-.020 deep, File Hard.

    I always thought they shot blasted the parts with carbon dust to get some carbon on it to react when heated. I make 25k parts every 2 years for a customer for the last 15 years and I never knew how they did the heat treatment. I was told by some places that they cannot heat treat any 12L14.

    I did quote a job recently that was 12L14....Here it is

    Job called for

    CARBON NITRIDE, (SHALLOW CASE .010-.020" DEPTH), MINIMUM 50RC


    Description: C51 22RF S Pin

    Material: 12L14 Alloy Steel

    Heat Treatment: Case Harden 0.010/0.020

    Hardness Results: File Hard

    Quantity: 250 Pieces

    Delivery Schedule: 4 Working Days

    Price: $1.25 Lb. $125.00 Min.
    Reference this price on your purchase order.

    PLEASE NOTE: Price does not include a 13.5% EESC fee. If requested, the following charges will be applied: Certifications: $20.00 each, Charts: $50.00 each, UPS handling charge: $5.00 per box.


    Carbon Nitride
    was a term I had not seen before.


    I know that they can tell me what to use if I tell them what HRC I am looking for. I do not know what HRC I am looking for yet.

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    I would go with the above recommended 4140-pre hard. No heat treat, no fixing heat treat warp.
    Also, you don't want them "glass hard" as they can chip, and send shrapnel flying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I would go with the above recommended 4140-pre hard. No heat treat, no fixing heat treat warp.
    Also, you don't want them "glass hard" as they can chip, and send shrapnel flying.
    I was telling my dad that we can make 4140 work. We just need to know where to keep the hardness. It machines easy enough and is common enough. I am thinking 35-45 Rc is probably good, I could be wrong though.

    I think I can machine it without heat treat if we go this route.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    Carburizing is not exactly heat treating. It's case hardening.

    Carbeurizing isn't case hardening. It allows for the material to be case hardened. Essentially all it is, is adding carbon to the material.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    Carbeurizing isn't case hardening. It allows for the material to be case hardened. Essentially all it is, is adding carbon to the material.
    It's done at high temperature for the purpose of surface hardening. How would you define it because every heat treater I've used and all of google says that Carburizing = case hardening. That's the definition.

    There's varying processes, different materials are used to give up their carbon, but they all result in case hardening.

    I'm careful to call carburizing by that name instead of just case hardening because there are many ways to case harden different materials, but carburizing is the only way to do it with mild steel.

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    I feel Gordan has the best chose to make a proper tool.

    Roger

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    It's done at high temperature for the purpose of surface hardening. How would you define it because every heat treater I've used and all of google says that Carburizing = case hardening. That's the definition.

    There's varying processes, different materials are used to give up their carbon, but they all result in case hardening.

    I'm careful to call carburizing by that name instead of just case hardening because there are many ways to case harden different materials, but carburizing is the only way to do it with mild steel.
    Great explanation. Thanks.

    I see old prints from time to time with older terminology on it. Sometimes things get lost in translation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanASM View Post
    I was telling my dad that we can make 4140 work. We just need to know where to keep the hardness. It machines easy enough and is common enough. I am thinking 35-45 Rc is probably good, I could be wrong though.

    I think I can machine it without heat treat if we go this route.
    4140 PH as commercially available is typically 28-32 HRC, you don’t really get to pick if you are buying it in a hardened state.

    If it were me, I would run a sample part out of 4140 PH and let the customer test it. Maybe its just my poor reading comprehension but I didn’t really get a good understanding of its use from the OP. Seems like you might not know well either. 4140 PH will definitely be a heck of a lot better than 1018, and its most cost effective if you can avoid heat treating it yourself. Maybe its inadequate, but at least you can rule it out.


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