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Metal building insulation options

Fish On

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Location
Foley, Alabama
I almost put this in my ongoing thread in the owners section, but figured it would get more eyeballs here than 4 pages deep in a thread up there.

About to be building a metal building on commercial land. 40x60x14'. 2 12x12 doors, 2 man doors. Gulf coast, so AC is the consideration, heat is not a concern.

My initial thought is that I want the building spray foamed. I've worked in a couple spray foamed buildings (in a cold environment, though), and it sure seems like the cats meow. However, those were all old buildings, decades out of warranty. I'm finding that when building new, spray foam voids the sheet metal warranty, though the building salesman say that many folks do it anyway.

I'm trying to avoid the vinyl coated fiberglass rolls pinched between purlins and sheet metal. My current shop has them, not impressed. What are my other options? 2" thick foam board, cut and fitted into the walls and ceiling? 1" thick foam board with a 1" layer of spray foam over top (to better air seal gaps)? Is there some material that can be rolled out on top of the purlins under the sheeting that can have foam sprayed onto it? Or, just spray foam the thing, warranty be damned?

Yes, this is a question I should be asking the building companies, but I seem to have to hold their hands on anything that's not standard fiberglass batting.

I haven't been able to get much info on insulated exterior sheet panels, but I'm not sure they are going to be in the budget. The companies that seem to be more apt to offer them aren't interested in building such a small building.



And yes, I do plan on having insulated roll up doors, which seems to trigger an error message in the mind of a building salesman. Salesman for one company went on and on about how expensive these doors are when we discussed plans over the phone.
Another company doesn't offer said doors, but would happily build the building with just door openings, I get doors elsewhere. Called Overhead door company - he's going to email me a quote, but wanted to warn me ahead of time that these are going to be very pricey. Apparently, no one ever buys insulated doors.
 
That would indicate to me insulated rollers are a massive maintenance problem ,within warranty period.(near term).....Spray foam has been banned here for the percieved anti enviro properties of the foam......Not cold here ,but I found the silver roll stuck to the purlins was effective reflecting heat ,compared to bare metal.
 
Why not have the building sheeted with OSB first and then the metal ?

Spray foam goes on the OSB.
 
rigid polyiso between the structural members and the metal siding. They use really long screws and fasten it straight through.
 
Insulated metal panels is what you want. This is the metal siding, insulation and inside/liner panel all in one. It goes up about as fast as sheet metal but once it is up it is DONE. No need for insulators to come and make a mess. No need to cover the inside with anything either. This is what cold storage buildings use so the R-value can be about as high as you want, just a thicker panel.
Use the same panels or contrasting color panels to make sliding doors.

AWIP is one company, All Weather Insulated Panels. They have a plant in the south somewhere.
Kingspan is another company. Out here the AWIP salesperson is way better than Kingspans, YMMV.

Another reason to use AWIP is they will sell direct to you, or your contractor, I dont think kingspan will sell to anyone but one of "their" installers. (out here anyway)
You cant compare IMP (insulated metal panels) to standard siding. The cost of the insulation plus the labor to install it goes away. The cost to cover the insulation and whatever materials goes away. Does the insulation need additional framing to support it? Time to co ordinate all these other subs as well as time to have them do it all goes away. If you add up all the other costs to have a comparable wall and/or roof the cost gets close to a wash and the time is faster with less headaches.
 
I'll go with the foam sandwich panels. 3 neighboring barns have been built with them. The foam adds great strength [r-20 to r -40 here] and they run 4+ feet between "strapping" and that is for 180 pound snow load! Walls require even less strapping. The labor savings alone pay the upfront cost. No place for rodents, clean [even pressure washable on the inside] and done.
 
I was more worried about cold weather than warm when I built my shop. It has 2" fiberglass between the siding and purlins. The builder said thicker insulation and the panels get wavy. But they recommended some insulation for a conduction stop between the purlin and siding. Then the space between the purlins is filled with fiberglass batting, and then a plastic liner is inside the fiberglass. Building is lined inside with metal 8' high.

Make sure the builder puts a sealant between the bottom purlin and the foundation.

Full insulated doors are common here. I have some that are 24 x 18 from overhead door. The south facing door has 6 sections with windows. It sure lets in a lot of light.

I recommend making your building 60' wide, 40' long with a full end rafter. That way when you decide its to small in a couple of years its easy to add on very usable space.
 
I'm putting 1 1/2 rigid foam cut to fit between the girts and then spray foam on top of that to keep the costs down, spray foam is expensive!

If I ever build another building, I will have the building totally sheeted, I had the roof done but not the walls?

Kevin
 
I have All metal building here in central Florida.
I had building spray foamed before i move all my equip in, my shop is 25X30x14 with two rollup doors and aman door.I keep the inside at 75 degrees with a 25000 BTU through the wall window shaker.
The only problem I have is the roll up doors they face east, and act like BIG radiators and no real way to insulate
I am gonna attempt to hang poly strips from the top of doors like a freezer.
have not done it yet but i cannot think of any other way to insulate Roll up doors
welcome any advice But i do recommend the spray foam
But remember you have to maintain a pretty constant temp or you will have surface rust
actually the only con I have encountered
 
Can't help with the building insulation as I built mine with a wood frame and 5/8 drywall, before lumber prices sky-rocked, sheet metal siding and roof. It has 60' clear span trusses and all insulation was blown in.

I did put in insulated overhead sectional doors that have a 17.5 R-Value and it really makes a difference, they have a 3" thick one that goes up to a 26 R-Value. They are made by C.H.I. Overhead doors, one door was 12 x 10 and priced at $1450 installed the other was 18 x 10 and it's price was $2200 installed, to give you a little cost reference. They are heavy so you need to use a commercial size opener if you don't want to be opening them by brute strength.:D
 
Spray foam is 'better' but is it 'better' enough to make up for the price?

Also spray foam guys like to amp up the R value of their product and spray less and charge more.

Ask carefully about the available insulation from the building company, maybe you can get the Maine insulation installed in GA

You will pay that insulation bill once, whatever you decide, but the electric bill keeps coming around.

Consider minisplits for ac, as all the efficient ones will also heat on the one day a year you might want it.

YOu need to do a real heatloss, err heat gain? calc but my gut tells me a 2 ton would keep the building cool if it were not a machine shop, probably a pair with machines running, but really, that is the hard part to figure out, how much heat you are adding
 
I almost put this in my ongoing thread in the owners section, but figured it would get more eyeballs here than 4 pages deep in a thread up there.

About to be building a metal building on commercial land. 40x60x14'. 2 12x12 doors, 2 man doors. Gulf coast, so AC is the consideration, heat is not a concern.

My initial thought is that I want the building spray foamed. I've worked in a couple spray foamed buildings (in a cold environment, though), and it sure seems like the cats meow. However, those were all old buildings, decades out of warranty. I'm finding that when building new, spray foam voids the sheet metal warranty, though the building salesman say that many folks do it anyway.

I'm trying to avoid the vinyl coated fiberglass rolls pinched between purlins and sheet metal. My current shop has them, not impressed. What are my other options? 2" thick foam board, cut and fitted into the walls and ceiling? 1" thick foam board with a 1" layer of spray foam over top (to better air seal gaps)? Is there some material that can be rolled out on top of the purlins under the sheeting that can have foam sprayed onto it? Or, just spray foam the thing, warranty be damned?

Yes, this is a question I should be asking the building companies, but I seem to have to hold their hands on anything that's not standard fiberglass batting.

I haven't been able to get much info on insulated exterior sheet panels, but I'm not sure they are going to be in the budget. The companies that seem to be more apt to offer them aren't interested in building such a small building.



And yes, I do plan on having insulated roll up doors, which seems to trigger an error message in the mind of a building salesman. Salesman for one company went on and on about how expensive these doors are when we discussed plans over the phone.
Another company doesn't offer said doors, but would happily build the building with just door openings, I get doors elsewhere. Called Overhead door company - he's going to email me a quote, but wanted to warn me ahead of time that these are going to be very pricey. Apparently, no one ever buys insulated doors.

When I built my 48x52 shop about 25 years ago I had a 24x12 insulated door put in and it cost me $3,500 with opener. No idea about current prices.

As to insulation I have asked a lot of people over the years and most all of them recommend spray in first. Like an inch of spray in them use whatever you want in addition to that.

And I so wish that I'd bought a building with a 14 food door opening. My first 5th wheel fit under the door but the last three don't.
 
Do you mean roll up doors or overhead doors. Roll up doors actually roll up like a roll of saran wrap whereas overhead doors are built with panels that are rigid and the door stows on tracks in the building when the door is open. Maybe you are just using the wrong term with the door people.
 
I donj;t understand why anyone would want true roll up doors, unless that is all that could be fit

Agreed! I have one. I hate that thing. Radiates a ton of heat in to the shop. Not much you can do about it either.
Yea, there are curtains and such. But, that is the main used door. What a PITA to have to deal with a curtain.
Some day, that door is getting replaced!

As for insulation, my opinion: as good as it works, I hate spray foam. If you ever have to do any work to the building, it becomes a giant hassle.

My vote would be to plan on finishing the inside of the building with steel (just like the outside) and plain ole' fiberglass in the walls/ceiling.
See davidn's shop!
Rock-wool is nice, but kinda pricey. If you can't budget to finish all of it, at least do the ceiling!
Two reasons: It is your worst enemy. It is the hardest to do later!
 








 
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