Micrometer Allergy
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  1. #1
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    Default Micrometer Allergy

    Well apparently the young guy at work (I'm only 24 but he's 19, so I guess that makes him the YOUNGER guy )has a rare condition where he thinks if he touches a micrometer he will catch the nasty and horrible disease known as ACCURACY. I've told him again and again to forget the guessing stick calipers and use his micrometer on important jobs with high tolerances. We just have manual machines, and he made about 100 fairly critical parts over the last couple days, all dimensions need to be within a thousandth. Only about 50% were useable and of the other 50% about half were able to be reworked into spec, and the other half were garbage. Apparently his stop had moved on him, and If he just took the time to check his work, and check it properly he would have caught it and not made scrap. He must have a hole going from one ear to the other, because not much of anything I teach him sticks. I've been talking with the boss and I don't think he's going to last much longer. I don't think I've ever actually seen him use his micrometer, even when doing grinding work! ANYWAYS.... anyone else ever encounter someone who was afraid to use a micrometer?

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    Never someone who refused to use them, but plenty who were just stubbornly ignorant of their potential. It's usually less an issue of which tools they use and more an issue of them understanding what they are doing when the cut and measure material. These are basic principals of things bending and flexing, fits, and just following a print. They guys that successfully use calipers don't do so because calipers are the only tool to use, but because they know how to handle tools in general and get the required results.

    If something works, great, go with it, but if it doesn't and you refuse to change, that's insanity.

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    He may be afraid to use them because he doesn't want to admit that he doesn't know how. maybe a training session on how to measure with a micrometer is in order

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    i have met many who don't do what they are suppose to do. and they know what to do. is it being stubborn or worse ?
    .
    many different things some as simple as following a checklist or writing down measurements. why do some act that way ? don't know but in over 40 years i have met many who were like that. its called "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink the water"

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    If someone was producing 50% scrap, he would either learn how to or push a broom.

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    maybe give him something else to do for a while that doesn't require measurement, like cleaning all the coolant tanks. If he does it again, show him the door

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    Default coworkers

    if you have 2 coworkers and they are equals or one is not the boss of another you cannot really do much when one is being stubborn
    .
    sure in perfect world people do what they are suppose to do. the reality is some do not

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    Are the micrometers digital? If not, I'd guess he can't add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    Are the micrometers digital? If not, I'd guess he can't add.
    .
    i have seen parts exactly .025 off before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecosta View Post
    Well apparently the young guy at work (I'm only 24 but he's 19, so I guess that makes him the YOUNGER guy )has a rare condition where he thinks if he touches a micrometer he will catch the nasty and horrible disease known as ACCURACY. I've told him again and again to forget the guessing stick calipers and use his micrometer on important jobs with high tolerances. We just have manual machines, and he made about 100 fairly critical parts over the last couple days, all dimensions need to be within a thousandth. Only about 50% were useable and of the other 50% about half were able to be reworked into spec, and the other half were garbage. Apparently his stop had moved on him, and If he just took the time to check his work, and check it properly he would have caught it and not made scrap. He must have a hole going from one ear to the other, because not much of anything I teach him sticks. I've been talking with the boss and I don't think he's going to last much longer. I don't think I've ever actually seen him use his micrometer, even when doing grinding work! ANYWAYS.... anyone else ever encounter someone who was afraid to use a micrometer?
    The calipers isnt the problem as much as in process inspection.
    I been doing this for 30+ years and I have found myself f'up as well from time to time.

    small shops are really bad for this(like mine) we get going on a part and everything falls into place perfectly. we get comfortable and dont check certain features, or overlook features.
    everyone no matter how small a shop is needs to do 100% inspection on every XX amount of parts. you always ahould have a different set of eyes double checking your work.ive used the neighbor car mechanic when no one was here to double check my work.
    Then of course the close tolerance stuff gets 100% inspected as ts run.
    No job is too small or too big for inprocess inspection.
    I have missed stupid shit that is normally assume after 1st article that cost me days of rework. Like fillet rads Breaking down etc.

    as far as the caliper guy, Take the calipers toss them in the garbage and warn him again. calipers + or - .005 OK under that NO.
    Dont fire the dude for that you need to revise your whole shops inspection process for every employee to prevent the problem.





    also while it takes time get in the habit of making inspection and in process inspection reports and make people write the numbers down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    Are the micrometers digital? If not, I'd guess he can't add.
    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    .
    i have seen parts exactly .025 off before.
    been guilty of that myself.
    but digitals are not the answer unless you have a KNOWN pin /Standard to verify with. seen parts read perfect on digitals ,only to be scrapped cause it was set wrong.

    on a 0-1 mic we alwasy have a deltronics pin close to the same size of the dia we are checking, if its a flat part we use a gage block (not a pin)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delw View Post
    The calipers isnt the problem as much as in process inspection.
    I been doing this for 30+ years and I have found myself f'up as well from time to time.

    small shops are really bad for this(like mine) we get going on a part and everything falls into place perfectly. we get comfortable and dont check certain features, or overlook features.
    everyone no matter how small a shop is needs to do 100% inspection on every XX amount of parts. you always ahould have a different set of eyes double checking your work.ive used the neighbor car mechanic when no one was here to double check my work.
    Then of course the close tolerance stuff gets 100% inspected as ts run.
    No job is too small or too big for inprocess inspection.
    I have missed stupid shit that is normally assume after 1st article that cost me days of rework. Like fillet rads Breaking down etc.

    as far as the caliper guy, Take the calipers toss them in the garbage and warn him again. calipers + or - .005 OK under that NO.
    Dont fire the dude for that you need to revise your whole shops inspection process for every employee to prevent the problem.





    also while it takes time get in the habit of making inspection and in process inspection reports and make people write the numbers down.
    .
    some resist writing numbers down. thats why they make Go and NoGo gages. trouble is even if shops have the gages some people wont even walk over to get them. usually the shops that lay off the few stubborn people, the rest do what they are suppose to do.
    .
    Chinese have a saying for it but cannot repeat it without offending some people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delw View Post
    The calipers isnt the problem as much as in process inspection.
    Really? You confidently inspect diameters at +-.001" with Calipers?

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    Really? You confidently inspect diameters at +-.001" with Calipers?

    R
    .
    some measure small under 2" square objects and get over confident with calipers. obviously if object is 6" or 12" or 18" long calipers are 10x harder to get to repeat.
    .
    and talking about holding any gage like a caliper for long periods of time it warms up from the heat of your hands expanding in length some dont appreciate or understand the concept cause they dont verify with gage blocks and ring gages their micrometer or caliper measurements
    .
    i often see even micrometers out of calibration over .0005" especially over 12" sizes. usually its a temperature thing and measuring pressure thing

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    We had a part run that the owners kid was running, and he was always using the calipers instead of a mic because it was faster and easier. Easy solution, I borrowed the calipers and didn't give them back. No more out of spec parts, and he didn't have any more time to play on his phone. We actually took to hiding all the calipers when he was around so he could never find them and use them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    Really? You confidently inspect diameters at +-.001" with Calipers?

    R
    Really? Did I say that somewhere are you just reading what you was hoping someone would say..

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    I must say that I'm impressed he achieved "only" a 50% scrap rate for tolerances of .001" using calipers ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    .
    i have seen parts exactly .025 off before.
    Seen 'em? I've *made* 'em! Quite embarrassing, and only many, many years ago, of course. Cough, cough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    .
    some resist writing numbers down. thats why they make Go and NoGo gages. trouble is even if shops have the gages some people wont even walk over to get them. usually the shops that lay off the few stubborn people, the rest do what they are suppose to do.
    .
    Chinese have a saying for it but cannot repeat it without offending some people.
    Thats very true, its all in discipline you have to force yourself to do it. Its a tad more easier for a shop owner to do it cause nothing more embarrassing than giving your customer scrap parts with the exception of loosing that customer.
    employees on the other hand generally dont have that worry, they have the mindset that " they will just make more"

    we had a problem with very small burrs(only seen on a comparator or microscope) talking thousands of parts from the citizen. They get 100% on o.d. and i.d threads and 100% in the comparator for thread form burrs or small tit on face.
    is it an over kill probably but its better than getting a call saying that you have some burrs or a tit on a part. cause usually what happens is the 1st couple a customer checks will be ones that have a issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delw View Post
    Really? Did I say that somewhere are you just reading what you was hoping someone would say..
    No, you didn't, the OP did. So when he says that's what he's working with, then you say "calipers are not the problem, in process is" I think the implication is there. By saying using calipers is not an issue, when it obviously is.

    R


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