Milling Machine Jib Crane - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip59 View Post
    I still think scrapyard I beams is the way I'm going, cost-wise it will be easier to accomplish.
    I'm finding scrap yard metal to cost more in the long run, especially when it comes to structural pieces.

    I don't find 20 foot sections of I beam, I find 6 foot sections that are capable of holding ten tons, not the 1 ton I need. So I think, what a deal, 0.30 / lb.

    Well, I could have bought what I actually needed for 0.85 / lb, only bought exactly what I needed, and not have to deal with the godawful color that someone else painted it, or have to grind the color off at the welds.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    I'm finding scrap yard metal to cost more in the long run, especially when it comes to structural pieces.

    I don't find 20 foot sections of I beam, I find 6 foot sections that are capable of holding ten tons, not the 1 ton I need. So I think, what a deal, 0.30 / lb.

    Well, I could have bought what I actually needed for 0.85 / lb, only bought exactly what I needed, and not have to deal with the godawful color that someone else painted it, or have to grind the color off at the welds.
    Good friend of mine runs the local one. $50 lets me load my 1/2 ton truck till it'll barely roll

  4. #43
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    i like the little yellow bridgy jib
    but
    i think i would tie it back to either the center picking lug hole or maybe the the other side
    thats a pretty fair side load on a couple bolts

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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip59 View Post
    I posted a thread on a similar issue, though I was looking to lift a bit more. My thought was a hybrid jib/gantry. A jib on one side, bolted to the floor, with the other side like a gantry. This would give it an N' radius (as long as the track was) allowing it to park over a machine and out of the way, yet pivot to move from one machine to the next, having the jib side mounted in the corner.

    I'm still looking at the idea, but it got zero replies...

    The thought behind it was having one side like a gantry meant that there was distributed forces, rather than trying to support it from a side or the top, it would have downward force to the floor on both sides, nothing on the walls or rafters.
    I am looking at doing just this. I am planning mocking it up in wood so I get the correct dimensions and there is less chance of messing up

    Happy Hunting
    archie

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpotter View Post
    I got one of those tables that raises and lowers itself with a foot pedal it is hydraulic. I keep the rotab and the dividing head on it and when I need them I wheel it over and slide them on. The only way this works is if you have no junk on the floor and room to move the cart around.
    This one is pretty short, but I'm sure you can modify it to work: 1000 lbs. Capacity Hydraulic Table Cart

  8. #46
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    steve, I have one of those. that will not help me with the lathe which is what I need help with.
    archie =) =) =)

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    A 200lb (or so) load is pretty much nothing as far as the ceiling joists are concerned if the load is properly spread over multiple joists. But such a lift is limited, as is a jib crane, to where the beam or jib is. A more useful lift would be a rolling double A frame bridge crane as it can be moved around.

  10. #48
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    Jib crane for the mill with air hoist.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails millhoist.jpg   rt-air-hoist.jpg   vise-hoist.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest Addy View Post
    The head, ram and turret ofr a turret mill is the largest dismountable assembly for moving in the home shop and it weighs about 700 lb.
    Presume the 700 lb avoir figure is for a BP?

    Closer to four times that when the turret in question is that of a 5200+ lb avoir all-up Quartet mill. The upside is a possiblity to add a removable /re-purpose-able 'A-frame' crane to either/both of the base section, OR the turret.

    Please excuse the massive size of these examples - the concept of a much smaller 'A' frame attached at two sides to the mill itself is what MAY be of interest here as a seldom-considered alternative:

    CEV- mounted to the traversing turret itself:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...from_right.jpg

    M88 VTR - fixed mount. Move the vehicle to align:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...icle_in_pm.jpg

    Takes a pair of these working in sync to lift a damaged 60 ton main battle tank so a trailer can be run under it. A single-boom crane that could do the same lift is not a small item.

    Note the stout cable backstays, which could as easily be solid rod, allthread, tubular, or flat bar in a very-much downscaled shop crane mounted ON the mill.


    Bill

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    Maybe I spent too much time framing buildings but I have developed a certain comfort level with loading up timbers.
    In my shop the trusses I build have a 2x6 bottom cord & if I need to lift something up to ~ 1500 lbs I just jamb a 4x4 across a couple and pass a strop over.

    If I need a more permanent way to shift 200 pound loads along a path, I would have a track bolted to the overhead and things swinging along like monkeys..
    If I needed more positions a bridge crane cobbled together from light beam and attached to the overhead would serve.
    There is so much spar stock around boat yards, if I needed to swing arcs, I would use a stick of spar with existing track and bearing cars fitted out.
    Wall pivot and arc of track in room to suit the path I need- All the gear is rated to a couple of thousand lbs so good to go..

    Again- I am a bit of a hack, but in a small shop I wouldn't put up which wheeling a crane around with all that lovely framing overhead to swing things from..

    Don't get any body parts under a suspended load....

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    -the last picture in this link shows my version of a swing arm hoist using an air cylinder to pick vises off of my tool car or engine blocks up and off an engine stand and onto the mill table

    -I use the hoist for every time I need to remove or re-install any of my four vises----using a smaller diameter air cylinder.

    -I also have another larger bore air cylinder that I use to lift crankshafts or heavy flywheels onto my lathe from a roll around table and it is capable of lifting a 297# BBF engine block onto my mill with no problem.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -Much of the stuff I do is racing engine related so the majority of this link is other stuff that I have built and use with my mill.

    -I also have a trolley attached to the ceiling above the walkway in front of my lathe----and both air cylinders are easily changed over from the mill to the lathe.

    -I also have an flow bench for flowtesting cylinder heads----with a trolley attached to the ceiling to lift and move heads from the nearby bench up and over onto the flowbench head perch.

    -some of those cast iron heads are just to difficult to handle without this air cylinder trolley system.

    -chances are I have previously shown this link in some other thread here a few years back.

    Bill Jones Page 1

    -while you are at this link you can click on the "back to page directory" and it brings up a variety of articles about some more of my stuff.
    -------------------------------------------------
    -I also used the swing arm hoist on my mill to lift the mill head up and over to the side so I could work on the quill bearings etc----here is a picture of the mill head hanging off to the side on the hoist.

    -I figured out how to use a long threaded fastener to lift the mill head because the air cylinder was totally wrong for that project.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails top-moved-off-side.jpg  

  15. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Under_Pressure View Post


    Probably not really relevant to the original poster, but on the subject of hoists & wooden structures, this bridge crane is in the shop of an Amish machine builder we have dealt with.
    A house mover I know told me that he always buys old railroad shop cranes when he can - they use their jacks and bring them down for either resale if they are relatively new, or for scrap when they are worn out. After he had removed a crane from a BN shop, the storekeeper told him that he had to also take the support beams / timber, since they were all part of the original crane funding. The housemover told me that the timber was all first growth pine & fir, often up to about 16 x 20", and usually up to about 24 ft long. Any nails were within 8 ft of the floor. He told me that he would keep the first 8 ft for blocking, and he'd resell the rest as first growth timber. Old cranes went from something to give his crew something to do, to a money making project.

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    Back about 30 years ago, we ran into a chuck / rotary vise handling problem in the shop. I installed a barn-door type track combined with some pre-bent McMaster track sections so the route ran over the chuck centers of all the lathes and passed over the mill's table. I made a pickle fork attachment so the chucks could be grabbed on their balance point and rolled to a storage rack about half way along the route. We didn't change chucks so very often that moving one over another lathe caused any problems.

    We bought a 300 Lb capacity chain hoist for the monorail. The end result was that it became very easy to move chucks without back injury.

  17. #54
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    For light loads.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails shop-crane.jpg  

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    My solution. Good for 500 lbs at full reach (and has been tested to that with outrigger raised off floor).


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  20. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrb56 View Post
    For light loads.....
    'bout to slam it as symptomatic of our ancestor's willingness to take risks we now try to minimize or avoid outright, but .. SO LONG AS .. the wheels at the outer end were free to move easily enough, it could have had a semblance of protection against that bane of a lifting mechanism's existence - to wit, a swinging load. Still leaves me worried.

    I'd prefer the modern counterpart with a decent 'I' beam of known strengths atop. Or an engineered tubing, maybe. Cannon barrels were pressed into lifting service after the close of WWII. Some no doubt failed at it, too.

    Common plumbing pipe, OTOH, is just too variable in the important characteristics for me to feel comfortable using it for that sort of structure.

    Bill

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    i like the tool box rig

    and
    that "light load" concept is cool too

    made from I-beam, built with a small a-frame instead of single pole to cut down on the swing issue, and one end hinged on the wall and you got a pretty slick deal that could command a 1/2 ton WLL even made from pretty small steel

  22. #58
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    Re Safety.

    My choice here would be an I-beam also but not because it is inherently stronger than welded-seam round tubing such as water pipe.

    Sure, I-beam will have a greater horizontal free span load bearing capacity than the pipe on a pound-per-foot basis but without the dimensions of each, the cross section shape is irrelevent.

    The reason I wouldn't use the 4" pipe in my steel rack on that span and for that load is because nowadays, flat wheel trolleys are cheap and everywhere, while 2-1/4" radius, concave rim trolleys wheels are not, so the pipe wouldn't even be considered but like Ray Behner and many others, I chose pipe for my jib crane, without hesitation, solely by eyeball!

    I also have some wooden beams that would be much stronger in that application than the pipe, like those in the Amish machine bay pic above and many more well proven examples a couple of hundred years ago. The Piano Forte' pre-dates structural steel I beams or ubiquitous concrete floors and when you add the dynamic load of the choir, some more dynamic, (AKA "feelin' the spirit") than others, including the traditional fat lady(s)......

    An I-beam that would not bear that load is readily available and and if lack of experience is in play, should be tested with a static load that exceeds any anticipated load for the crane before building it, dirt simple and obvious to nearly everyone. Stenciling your "approved" weight on the bridge is nearly useless. How many know the weight of all in or that will come into their shops or even have the device to weigh all? Even if you do have a suspension scale, gotta' lift it to weigh it, careful.....

    Will that guarantee the crane against failure? Of course not. It could be used by someone who doesn't know to what limit it was tested, or even by a builder/tester that is so old that he can't remember, like me. But I don't think I'll ever be so old that when there is question as to the load capacity for a given lift, that I won't raise it slightly, then add my 200+ pounds to test, while I note the beams degree or lack of deflection and then treat the move gently, with dynamics less than my little, old man jump.

    Cranes run the gamut from tool balancers to enormous bridge cranes and everyone of them can be tested to failure, 'cept the tool balancer. It'll just sit there and refuse to lift above it's rated max, a very safe condition.

    My point is that constantly in life, each of us must make decisions regarding safety and here, in terms of exposure, crane safety falls far short of the importance of pre-determining if your rate of speed on the road, will require that you slow down to make that next curve, yet few people will volunteer to preach that potential danger to an experienced driver. Why? Because most drivers have the experience to instantly judge that potentially deadly combination thousands of times yearly and adjust to a safe % below disaster.

    There are a few who will tread where angels fear but constant verbal finger-wagging at one and all, is not a cure for them, where natural selection steps up in it's place.

    Bob

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    Good stuff, Bob..

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell Jr. View Post
    Re Safety. ...
    ....
    ANY beam, truss, tube, wotever...
    ...should be tested with a static load that exceeds any anticipated load for the
    wotever..
    before building it, dirt simple and obvious to nearly everyone.
    and lest we forget, at a scant few inches above ground-level, where end-supports can be placed at a relevant position, a center pad for stable measurement of deflection, and the ability to make easy use of static loading from ABOVE, not hanging something UNDER an already-built structure, is cheap, easy, and fail-safe, it not no-fail.

    The vaunted 'California Bearing Ratio' soils test once taught at Ft. Belvoir?

    One of the more important parts of the 'test-equipment' was the known-mass applied atop a hydraulic bottle-jack.

    The common Engineer dump truck, deuce-and-a-half, or 5T LWB one had ridden to the test-site .. plus a smidgen of fifth-grade math.



    Bill

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  25. #60
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    The folding engine hoist is a simple solution, but a friend of mine figured that he didn't need that much capacity to handle a chuck or a rotary table, so he used a medical lift manufactured by Heuer. It is designed to handle about 400 Lbs (+/-), and he only had to do minor modifications for what he needed. He found his on CL for $ 125


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