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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    (HSM or the Zone)
    Nah man, this is legit power generation stuff, but certainly cannot afford (monerary and/or time wise) to restore an old L&S, a Monarch or a Cinci mill.

    Outside of the US revenues aren't as high. Maybe hopefully one day, but certainly not now.

    Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

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    Yeah, you mentioned something about Kingston lathes. There's nothing shabby about them. I consider them as fairly nice machines if you can afford them. They are a copy of the old Mazak and Mori lathes that used to be built 40 years ago. They used to have a warehouse in Houston that kept a decent inventory of parts and machines. May not be true today, I really don't know. Consider a CNC lathe...instead.

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    The Kingston's I've seen at shows looked good (very different from actual ownership of course) - note that the smallest lathes they list are 17" swing. (But maybe OP would like a 17x43 or bigger...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    The OP did not mention the size of lathe and he is working in a busy commercial shop ……………... have you bothered to read the machinery discussion guidelines?????
    Eventualy we will be talking about offshore machines because thats all that will be left to buy.
    Some point in time the good stuff will be beyond repair.

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    Yes, currently trying to work something out with the bank to get a Kingston HR for heavy turns. After all I have seen and heard, I can honestly tell you they hold up real well but are really pricey.

    One thing about the USA Kingston website is that they list machines that are not in the taiwanese webpage, however the "smaller" XJ and HD are really manufactured by Kinwa and rebadged as Kingstons. Ain't seen one of those in action but the data page of Kinwa makes them look legit and solid, plus I doubt Kingston would rebadge junk.

    Was looking into getting a second hand 1660-class lathe for smaller work, the HJ seems like a good bet.

    Hope the bank cooperates, times are tough.

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post
    1. The guidelines are about the size/use of the machine - and OP is clearly trying to stay out of "hobbyist" territory.

    2. Grizzly (which also owns the soutbend brand) is a kind of aggregator/distributor of relatively variable stuff. Meaning a model abc1 might be quite subpar while a model abc2 might be quite good.

    3. Having dug through that, I bought an SB1012F 14x40 lathe. I'm not a commercial shop, but it gets used by me, a swarm of robotics students, and various of my associates (well, in the before time.) The gearbox can be clunky, and the DRO is a touch coarse, but for what I (we) have done it has been fine. It is nothing like the PRC machines I've seen. Search for that model and you'll find other folks on PM who've had OK results with it. I would think for any business where you are doing repairs, working to fit to another part, doing second ops, it should be fine. But I'm mostly a mill guy.

    4. It's quite unlikely that any of the other taiwan machines would be much different. There are no practically priced new machines made in the US so far as I could tell. If you need/want to buy new, you're going to end up with an eastern Euro or Taiwanese machine. (Weiler apparently still actually exists but seems hard to find....)

    By the way I'm sick to death of the "buy a good used machine" because that process was just nuts in my area - people who list machines they didn't own, or change their minds about selling at all (let alone price), one ad listed a phone number for some (unhappy) folks who didn't own the machine in question and were befuddled about why their number was in the ad.

    5. Having visited the Grizzly showroom in bellingham, yes, the SB branded machines are a higher standard of fit and finish than the Grizzly branded machines (and more money as you would expect), and from what I saw, they *seemed* less variable - that is, I would guess that say a larger or smaller machine in the line my SB1012F came from might be an OK risk.

    6. Be sure to get (either in the package or ordered at the same time) any machine specific accessories (taper attachment, steady rest, follow rest) - because after a model change these may be hard to buy. Things that fit to standards (e.g. the D1-6 camlock chucks) don't have this problem.
    You can buy new Weiler Lathes (and also new Monarch 10EE Lathes) in the USA, I did so (Weiler). Just expect to pay a high price for these machines. They are the same quality (or better) than "old iron" and they have modern electronics on them. Contact Monarch Lathes as they sell both the Monarch and are resellers for Weiler product lines.

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    That's good to know. I somehow (a few years ago) couldn't find them (maybe a bad website or just error on my part.) And of course the price premium might make them impractical.

    Oddly, when I searched just now, Weiler lathes come up under Kock Machine Tool (Houston)

    Sigh...

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    You can buy new Weiler Lathes (and also new Monarch 10EE Lathes) in the USA, I did so (Weiler). Just expect to pay a high price for these machines. They are the same quality (or better) than "old iron" and they have modern electronics on them. Contact Monarch Lathes as they sell both the Monarch and are resellers for Weiler product lines.
    I can imagine a brand new, 0 hours 10EE having a sticker price of over 100K before tooling and accessories... one can only dream haha

    Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    You can buy new Weiler Lathes (and also new Monarch 10EE Lathes) in the USA, I did so (Weiler). Just expect to pay a high price for these machines. They are the same quality (or better) than "old iron" and they have modern electronics on them. Contact Monarch Lathes as they sell both the Monarch and are resellers for Weiler product lines.
    Realistically though who could afford them, not very many people could.
    Like Northfield Woodworking Machines Yikes are they pricy.

  12. #30
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    It's threads like this and comments like this that make me scratch my head.

    We obviously have an original poster who is in some kind of commercial environment. He clearly needs a manual lathe and he clearly wants one that is a professional machine. He does not want a piece of junk. But I am sure he has a budget or at least some financial restraints. Most of us can not just go out and buy the most expensive models of everything, at least that is my PROFESSIONAL experience. So he is asking, just asking if anyone has any experience with a particular line of lathes in a commercial/professional environment. There are two things that I do not see here. One, "No, I do not have any experience with any of these lathes." and two, "Yes, I do." and here is what I observed. I also do not see any suggestions for a new and "professional" level lathe that is made in the USA and that is probably at the heart of this situation.

    I also see at least one comment stating that you can not make money with a manual lathe. And yet our OP apparently has a need for one. So he IS in a commercial shop; one that IS making money. And he needs a manual lathe for one reason or another for that shop to continue to make money. Perhaps they make a lot of "one-offs". Perhaps they need to do some operations that can not be performed economically with a CNC lathe. Perhaps he needs to do developmental work. Perhaps he needs to make parts and/or fixtures for the money making machines. Perhaps ... It really is not ours to question why he needs a manual lathe. He has already determined that. He needs information on one line of lathes that he is considering. He wants you to share any experience you may have with them.

    In my career I have often been in a situation where a certain piece of equipment would have made my job a lot easier. Or it would have made it a lot faster when time did count. Or it may have been the only way to do something "in house" instead of sending it out and waiting for the task to be done by others, usually at a high cost. The high cost of high quality equipment often made these purchases impossible. And I could understand that. But in some cases, the purchase of equipment that was not at a fully "professional" level may have made the job possible. In those cases I had to make an informed judgement about the purchase of such equipment because the bosses and/or bean counters were always looking over my shoulder.

    Frankly, I do not blame the OP for ASKING about a possible lathe for his shop, for his COMMERCIAL use. It may be a perfectly horrible choice which he should run away from. But it just may be a good choice given his needs and his budget (or what he can talk the powers that be into). And if he is spending his own money, then I can feel his agony ten times over. A bad choice with your own money is at least ten times worse than one with others money.

    I have an old South Bend lathe but that is not what he is asking about. So I do not have the experience with the new SB lathes that he is asking for. I also do not have any real suggestions about other brands for him. I do not know of a lathe that would fit his requirements. So I did not comment one way or the other.

    He did put "Grizzly" in the title, along with "South Bend" so any of you who do not want to spend your time on the subject can just pass over it. You weren't tricked into the thread. So far this has not been closed and I do not think that it should be. A PROFESSIONAL is asking for help on a work related problem from other professionals and that should be enough to qualify for posting here. I say help him our if you can. And if you, like me, can not then just go on to another thread.



    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Do any of you guys bother to read the machinery discussion guidelines at the top....???

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    Quote Originally Posted by EPAIII View Post
    It's threads like this and comments like this that make me scratch my head.
    I'm gonna be even more blunt than EPAIII.

    *ANYTHING* manual that costs less than $50k is gonna be made in Taiwan. So shut up and go cry in your beer or something because that horse left the barn 30 *years* ago.

    Recently in another thread here I steered a poster in a similar situation to an Acra lathe. I've used them before, good machines. He is having a positive experience too. Not a fluke, I spoke to a maintenance guy 10 years ago that liked them because you can order individual parts and support.

    New Acra 1743ACH Lathe

    It's an Asian lathe. They all are nowdays. Different importers put different brands on them. Deal with it. Because short of another American Revolution where we burn down Wall St. that is how things are gonna be.

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    There's a South Bend mill with box ways on the Grizzly site; that one looks pretty decent.

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    Try this link:
    New South Bend from Grizzly Model 1012 F 14 X 40 with DRO

    Price was excellent

    The issues I had with it I either resolved or learned to live with.
    I received a lot for my money.

    Lost

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    Guys one question, I see in the Grizzly webpage that they are using Meehanite for their castings, is that actual fact? How is the rigidity for heavy cuts?

    Tbh I'm going to dig deeper in the other manufacturers' webpages (and my pockets) to try to find something 1660 that will spare me headaches as much as possible.

    Btw thank you all for taking the time to pitch in your responses!

    Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

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    EPA - I did mention that I actually own an SB1012F, and that I think it's OK for most purposes. Other than that, I agree with the rest of your post.

    It's odd, in some fields, notably photography, the professionals often have way less invested in gear than the amateurs. Why? When you don't have some other revenue stream financing the CanikonSonyThon WizzyBang 2020, and have real bills to pay, that 2018 era camera with very high grade lens seems just fine. Especially when your market is being eaten by randoms with cell phones anyway.

    And for the folks who trot out "get a CNC lathe" - I used to think that way. I owned one. It has the dubious honor of being the first major machine I ever sold. Why?

    It was an instrument of Satan.

    It was incredibly slow to set up and program, had an inscrutable user interface. If you wanted 100 or 1000 of something, it was awesome. If I wanted one of something, it was faster to put it in a cobbled up chuck on a cat-40 mount and turn it in one of the mills. Once I got the SB it just sat, and I finally got smart and sold the CNC lathe.

    CNC milling machines (at least the ones I own) do not have this problem. I can do most things about as fast with one of them as I could with a manual drill press, and surely faster than I could do it with a manual mill. And so I had expected I could get facile with a CNC lathe in the same way. Never worked out. (The machine did have issues, like the manual being full of outright lies, etc., due to less than ideal MTB integration of the controller. Lesson learned....)

    So while I believe more than ever that CNC is the way for milling machines, I've come round to the idea that manual lathes, manual grinders, and so forth, are sensible things to have, and can represent a good allocation of capital and floor space.

    Now, a different response to OP's question is that while the SouthBend line from Grizzly seems OK (see my notes above), it *might* be the case that they would like an Acer and Acra better.

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  20. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post
    That's good to know. I somehow (a few years ago) couldn't find them (maybe a bad website or just error on my part.) And of course the price premium might make them impractical.

    Oddly, when I searched just now, Weiler lathes come up under Kock Machine Tool (Houston)

    Sigh...
    You can find them at Home | Monarch Lathes, the CEO Harry is a really good guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbowerke View Post
    I can imagine a brand new, 0 hours 10EE having a sticker price of over 100K before tooling and accessories... one can only dream haha

    Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk
    You are correct about that price

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    Likely way less heavy duty than old iron.
    Likely few machines will ever be as good as the old/old iron.

    but still a new machine likely more square and more true that a wreck with 40 thousand houres af abuse.

    And a well rebiult built Old/old grinder is likely better that any grinder one can find/buy.
    (possible the same for a lathe...?)

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    Check ok GMC machinery they are Taiwan machines but so are new south bends.

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    How much do the eastern European made lathes cost theses days. Are they really over $50,000?
    Bill D


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