Modern Direct Drive Toolpost Grinder - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 33 of 33
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,224
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    70
    Likes (Received)
    243

    Default

    Hi
    I am fast reaching the conclusion that a direct drive spindle would not be suitable as a general purpose tool post grinder. The rated rpm is too high and reducing rpm reduces available power output.

    I am thinking a better option would be to use a larger diameter, slower rpm motor, which then requires a belt driven spindle. The RC and EV (scooters) market has compact, lightweight motors available like these ones:
    Motors for Multi-rotors Tarot 6115 High Power Brushless Motor (320kv / CW) - HeliPal

    brh5055 140kv brushless motor for electric scooter skateboard diy kit Sale - Banggood.com




    Dazz

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Webster Groves, MO
    Posts
    6,894
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1708
    Likes (Received)
    3060

    Default

    I have a Precise brand direct drive grinder rated at 1 hp at 45,000 RPM, water cooled. I love it. One time I had it set up on my Sheldon lathe and a tool & die friend was admiring it. I ran it up and told him to feel the vibration. He put a hand on it and said "What vibration." I said "That's the point." Of course, you won't find one in a box of Cracker Jack and it does have the size problem, about 3 1/2" diameter. Even if you divide the hp down for a wheel over 3 1/2", you still will be able to do a lot of grinding.

    I also have a Dumore with a little universal motor driving a belt. The vibration is terrible, all from the motor. One of these days if the round tuit supply catches up, I will balance the motor.

    The best setup I ever saw was at a tool company in New York City. It had a typical spindle like you would expect on a belt drive, but the motor was an ordinary single phase motor on the floor. The round belt went up to a pair of pulleys maybe two feet above the lathe spindle, then forward to another pair on a piece of spring rod to carry it over the spindle, then down to the grinder spindle. There was enough range of movement in the spring to allow a wide range of grinding wheel position and motor vibration didn't matter.

    Bill

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    24,706
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    7724

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dazz View Post
    Hi
    I am fast reaching the conclusion that a direct drive spindle would not be suitable as a general purpose tool post grinder. The rated rpm is too high and reducing rpm reduces available power output.
    You seem to be coming into agreement with Mr. Hamilton & Mr. Beach in realizing their soda-fountain milkshake stirrer motor needed belts to a proper spindle with its own mount and good bearings, thus birthing "Do More than make milkshakes" AKA "Dumore" as a new venture.

    Personally, I'd copy a McGonegal (Themac). They did not, and "Dunot" do milkshakes worth a damn, but are better engineered and executed as TP grinders.

    "Precise" (==> Rockwell ==> Fischer Spindle) were never really meant for use by mere mortals, priced accordingly.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Apex, NC
    Posts
    1,434
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    716

    Default

    I cringe at putting any grinding wheel on a precision lathe; it doesn't matter how well you try to cover things up, abrasive dust will get into things, and almost impossible to completely remove (heck, you don't even know were it is, and it's there forever). Folks here often talk about keeping surface grinders and bench grinders, etc away from the machine tools, but then stick a grinder ON a toolroom lathe (?). The lathe manufacturers probably liked selling toolpost grinders, and showing them grinding along on uncovered machines...

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    24,706
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    7724

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by car2 View Post
    I cringe at putting any grinding wheel on a precision lathe; it doesn't matter how well you try to cover things up, abrasive dust will get into things, and almost impossible to completely remove (heck, you don't even know were it is, and it's there forever). Folks here often talk about keeping surface grinders and bench grinders, etc away from the machine tools, but then stick a grinder ON a toolroom lathe (?). The lathe manufacturers probably liked selling toolpost grinders, and showing them grinding along on uncovered machines...
    I'm not fond of it myself. Nor on a mill.

    But it isn't REALLY that hard to control the debris.

    One does have to "want to" badly enough to do more work than toss the odd dirty shop towel (dangerous, BTW.) across the ways, though.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Apex, NC
    Posts
    1,434
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    I'm not fond of it myself. Nor on a mill.

    But it isn't REALLY that hard to control the debris.

    One does have to "want to" badly enough to do more work than toss the odd dirty shop towel (dangerous, BTW.) across the ways, though.
    Thanks. I use an old emco 8 for *small* grinding stuff (with small die grinders, and Dumore mounted die grinders with a speed control), and have on rare occasion ground a little on a SB10K; I take plastic film and stick it all over with magnets, with basically everything covered, and since the parts are small, usually a vacuum can be crammed in somewhere. But covering things isn't easy with a large/long part requiring carriage movement, and a big grinder with lots of hardware. Only as some last resort would I put a grinder or abrasives on the Hardinge (or a 10ee or similar). If I need some big or long part ground, I just take it to someone that has the proper equipment. Cheers.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    24,706
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    7724

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by car2 View Post
    If I need some big or long part ground, I just take it to someone that has the proper equipment. Cheers.
    .. and already knows how to get the best results out of it. Because it is their JOB.

    THIS..

    A(ny) professional grind shop has - for starters - more WHEELS than most of us can afford, more FiXTuRES than we have time to even fully understand the need of, and more TIME and experience at the use of their machines than anyone NOT a full-time grinder hand can keep up with.

    Truing a spindle taper or a collet-closer taper in situ - right on one's machine as it must be run - is about the only thing that makes much sense - to me, anyway - to DIY under yer own roof.

    If there's a greater need, it isn't for a TP grinder. It is for a surface, or cylindrical, or tool & cutter grinder, and then.. you become a grinder hand in a grinder shop and must expect to make all the appropriate investments - training as well as equipment and consumables - to do it properly.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,224
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    70
    Likes (Received)
    243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    One does have to "want to" badly enough to do more work than toss the odd dirty shop towel (dangerous, BTW.) across the ways, though.
    I use oil wet news paper or paper towels. The grit sticks to the oil. If they get caught in something spinning, they disintegrate. Much much safer than any fabric near a machine tool.

    Dazz

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,224
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    70
    Likes (Received)
    243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    If there's a greater need, it isn't for a TP grinder. It is for a surface, or cylindrical, or tool & cutter grinder, and then.. you become a grinder hand in a grinder shop and must expect to make all the appropriate investments - training as well as equipment and consumables - to do it properly.
    If TP grinders are rare here then surface/T&C/cylindrical grinders are like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
    I'd have to make one to get one. With carbide inserts, the utility of a T&C grinder is diminishing.

    Dazz

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    24,706
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    7724

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dazz View Post
    If TP grinders are rare here then surface/T&C/cylindrical grinders are like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
    I'd have to make one to get one. With carbide inserts, the utility of a T&C grinder is diminishing.

    Dazz
    With the repeatable precision that modern (CNC) machining centres routinely deliver, yah - grinding is nowhere near as essential as it once was for lots of goods.

    So why YOUR "need" anyway?

    And I'm reasonably familiar with both islands, given I've always preferred to tour by hired motorcar not tour bus or anything "organized". So yeah, NZ is not Ohio nor the Ruhr. But still...

    Industry exists. A market exists. Imports "happen" every day of every week.

    Looked for an Italian QCTP I hadn't seen in a few years, lo and behold one of the top google hits found it on the website of a dealer... in New Zealand!

    Scott Machinery - Engineering Machinery Specialist - Accessories - Lathe Accessories - Toolposts - Algra Rapidue Italian Quick Change Tool Posts

    More scouting. Less whingeing.

  11. Likes Greenwud liked this post
  12. #31
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Walla Walla Wine and Wild Turkey
    Posts
    4,427
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    227

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by car2 View Post
    I cringe at putting any grinding wheel on a precision lathe; it doesn't matter how well you try to cover things up, abrasive dust will get into things, and almost impossible to completely remove (heck, you don't even know were it is, and it's there forever). Folks here often talk about keeping surface grinders and bench grinders, etc away from the machine tools, but then stick a grinder ON a toolroom lathe (?). The lathe manufacturers probably liked selling toolpost grinders, and showing them grinding along on uncovered machines...
    All true but....

    I simply have not had the luxury of having enough space such as a national lab to separate my equipment. What many have not realized is if you have a bench grinder anywhere in your shop, and worse if you dress the wheels, there is grit all over your machines. An eye opening test is to dress a bench grinder wheel, then turn off the lights, and using a narrow beam flash light, look around the shop, and watch the cloud of dust go everywhere.
    The only solution is, to constantly wipe down the machine you are using, and or wipe down the machine before moving anything.
    I had, and still have A toolroom lathe, and a jigborer next to a tool&cutter grinder, and a Sunnen hone. The lathe was in service for more then 2500 hours, I did grind its chuck jaws in place, used reasonable care, after that run, I took the machine home, and it still holds tolerance.
    I really need that cutter grinder at hand, right there with those precise machines, constantly wiping the ways, and trying to control the dust with shop vacs, mist, ventilation or whatever helps.

    If TP grinders are rare here then surface/T&C/cylindrical grinders are like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
    I'd have to make one to get one. With carbide inserts, the utility of a T&C grinder is diminishing.

    Dazz


    Myself, being into the repair of expensive mechanical objects, its not possible or economical to have all types of carbide inserts at hand, a cutter grinder makes many things much more possible. alot different then manufacturing.

  13. Likes Greenwud liked this post
  14. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    160
    Likes (Received)
    188

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dazz View Post
    If TP grinders are rare here then surface/T&C/cylindrical grinders are like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
    I'd have to make one to get one. With carbide inserts, the utility of a T&C grinder is diminishing.

    Dazz
    How's that then?

  15. #33
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Interior British Columbia
    Posts
    2,186
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    228
    Likes (Received)
    660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dazz View Post
    I use oil wet news paper or paper towels. The grit sticks to the oil. If they get caught in something spinning, they disintegrate. Much much safer than any fabric near a machine tool.

    Dazz
    Aluminum foil and any spray can full of oil works pretty well too. The foil tears without too much provocation, and does not tend to rope up if it does get snagged into the chuck.

    Best not done. Best left to others. So lets not do anything, and we all sit and wait for others to get it done for us, eh?

    Hope springs eternal. Or infernal. Depending on whether you are labor or management!


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •