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moglice for crossfeed/backlash nut rebuild?

Lca078

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Location
San Antonio, TX
Anyone have advice for using moglice (or equivalent) for rebuilding a severly worn out crossfeed nut and associated backlash nut for a lathe saddle. The crossfeed rod is standard 1" 4 pitch acme left hand- I just finished making a new one from precision acme threaded rod. I can get brass blanks tapped for this but just building up the existing worn out nuts would be a lot easier. Heck, it might even be better as it would be a rather tight fit compared to some hand tapped blank. According to moglice, it can be done but I was wondering if anyone had actual experience with this type of application.
 
It's been a long time since I used the stuff and I didn't like it then. I wouldn't use it to build up the nut thread. I would make a new nut. I would be afraid of it peeling off inside the nut.
 
I bet that hand tapping will be easier and cheaper. Tap the nut while keeping it too hot to hold so it will be tighter at room temperature when it shrinks. Use some fine lapping compound to lap the nut to the screw if you can get it "too" tight. I imagine you can get various fit sizes on acme taps but I don't know how much trouble that would be. Making the nut fit tight and lapping the nut to the screw will improve both the nut and the screw.
 
my experience

I've used Moglice successfully for several years, and make precision lead screws as well. However, using Molice to mold a nut is not simple. Moglice offers so little clearance, any variation in thread pitch, of pitch dia will cause failure. Also, you better be damn sure the thread root, pitch, and major dia are all dead concentric.
Suspect you ment to suggest bronze vs. brass for a machined nut. Do yourself a favor and just use good ole Ampco 18, and the correct class of tap. May require both roughers and finishing.
Aw, regarding lapping a bronze nut, may want to rethink that.
 
Don't lap the nut.It will become a lap against the new thread. Can you slit the nut so you can adjust it with a socket head allen screw?
 
There was an article on exactly this task in either Home Shop Machinist or Machinist Workshop. I'll see if I can find the article this evening.

Steve.
 
I've used Moglice 1000 (the Teflon-based epoxy) to cast leadscrew nuts when I had my Mill/Drill. It wasn't that difficult: I drilled-out the old nuts, sprayed epoxy release agent (that comes with the Moglice kit) on the screw, and made a set of dams for the ends of the nut (to keep the epoxy in). I drilled three holes along the length of the old nut to inject the Moglice.

Each coating of release agent will give you around .001" clearance when you release the Moglice nut. I think I used 3 coats (3 thou clearance). If the custom-formed nut is too tight, Moglice recommends using Bon Ami scouring powder as a non-embedding lapping compound to lap the nut to the leadscrew.

The end result is an extremely low-friction, and low backlash, nut.

For an old leadscrew, you'll want to re-cut the worn leadscrew to normalize the thread pitch, since the leadscrew will have much more wear in the center than on the ends. In the Home Shop Machinist article, the author re-cut the acme threads all the way down to V-threads, but that should only be necessary if you have a lot of wear.

Devitt Machinery (the US Moglice rep) has a page describing casting leadscrew nuts and quill housing too:

http://www.moglice.com/newsite/frames/wroteframe.html

If you Google "Sherline Moglice Nut" you can find several articles from a guy who cast near zero backlash Moglice nuts for his Sherline. The trade-off is that the tighter you cast the nuts (for less backlash) the more time you'll spend fitting and lapping the nuts.

Good luck,

Robert
 
"crossfeed rod is standard 1" 4 pitch acme left hand"

That didn't come off no Sherline...

You stand a pretty good chance of the cross-slide rigidity being that of the Moglice material in a lathe as the nut takes most all of the outboard thrust on the tool.
 
That didn't come off no Sherline...

This is a picture of the leadscrew nut they're casting on the Moglice web page. That didn't come off a Sherline either ;)

figure12.jpg
 
Robert and others,
Seems to me (and I beg your pardon for overstating what may be obvious) that the most important part of any leadscrew/nut restoration is the leadscrew. Unless the leadscrew is as near perfect as it is possible to make then no amount of Moglice, or precision tapping, or lapping, or praying, or shaking of rattles will make any real improvement.
 
Found it! The Home Shop Machinist - Jan/Feb issue 2004, Article is titled "Repair Backlash with Moglice" by Otto Bacon.

A couple notes from the article - Make some collars to keep the screw centered, use clay to keep moglice from leaking out the ends. Use BonAmi cleaning compound to lap the threads. It only laps for a short while and then breaks down and won't continue lapping.

Steve.
 
Seems to me that the most important part of any leadscrew/nut restoration is the leadscrew. Unless the leadscrew is as near perfect as it is possible to make then no amount of Moglice, or precision tapping, or lapping, or praying, or shaking of rattles will make any real improvement.

Right, you either have to re-cut the worn leadscrew before you cast the Moglice nut, or replace the leadscrew and cast around a new leadscrew.

With a cast Moglice nut, you have to have uniform threads, or the nut will bind at some point. In other words, if you cast the nut around the thin, worn threads in the middle of the leadscrew, it will bind on the ends where it's not worn. If you cast the nut at the ends where it's not worn, it will have a lot of slop in the middle.
 
I have an old Rockwell 11 that has run well with the nut made of babbit for the last 15 years. I have to repour the nut about every two years. I got the idea from the big old Ingersoll adjustable rails. The elevating nuts were made of babbit. If you do moglice, make sure you have enough release agent on everything.
 
Pages 190-193 of "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" by Wayne Moore describes the nut and lead screw lapping procedure used by Moore Tool Co. in building their measuring machines and jig grinders and diamond turning machines for those of you interested in super precision. There are a lot of myths about lapping out there. Lapping is a major part of our business.
 
I bought 100g of moglice earlier for a clausing drive repair. 74.62 delivered.

Good point Clutch. The price for the Moglice itself is reasonable (for what it is): $47 for 100 grams. The problem is Devitt Machinery charges ridiculous shipping -- $30 to ship a 100 grams of epoxy, with the claim that it's a hazmat fee that they're passing on to the customer.

I don't pay huge hazmat fees to have Devcon shipped to my house...
 
Pages 190-193 of "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" by Wayne Moore describes the nut and lead screw lapping procedure used by Moore Tool Co. in building their measuring machines and jig grinders and diamond turning machines for those of you interested in super precision.

Very different processes. In Foundations, the Moore guys are measuring the pitch error of a leadscrew, and differentially lapping out pitch errors on small sections of the leadscrew with a precision master lap.

In this case, we're talking about injecting lapping compound between the nut and the leadscrew to cause enough wear to allow a tight-fitting cast nut to rotate freely.

Same difference between putting lapping compound between two gears to reduce noise, and precision lapping a cut gear with a master gear lap.
 








 
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