Monarch 14c and a Sidney 14
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    ny usa
    Posts
    568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    274

    Default Monarch 14c and a Sidney 14

    Yup. They may be coming home very soon. The only thing I don't like is that they both apparently only have 30" between centers. I'm going to look at the Sidney now. Should know more in less than 2 hours.

    I need at least one of them ASAP, since the Hendey and the L&S were unexpectedly bought from me last night.
    Yes, I loved them both, but I couldn't say no to the offer. Besides, I still have the steady rest, 4 jaw chuck, and the aloris CA tool post, tools, holder, and all tailstock tooling from the L&S.
    Check it out. The Sidney is a x mas eve baby!
    imagejpeg.jpg
    img_6553.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    4,702
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    809
    Likes (Received)
    1940

    Default

    Is the Sidney a herringbone?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    ny usa
    Posts
    568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    274

    Default

    I don't know. I went to look at it, but is was in a very difficult area to even get close to it. They're going to dig it out so I can look again tomorrow.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    ny usa
    Posts
    568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    274

    Default

    Just verbally committed to the monarch, sight unseen. Fingers crossed.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    30,487
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    April 1952 on the Monarch does not match the serial.

    Monarchs would be just past 34,000 that year

    The BRONZE (rather than light alloy) tag is a further give away that the machine is very early forties
    Last edited by johnoder; 02-14-2020 at 07:41 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    ny usa
    Posts
    568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    274

    Default

    So, what does that mean?

    Here's what he sent me on the tailstock end:
    img_6554.jpg


    The 5 in 1952 does look a little suspicious.... Rebuild or something? Maybe?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    189
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    41

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider845 View Post
    The Sidney is a x mas eve baby!
    imagejpeg.jpg
    img_6553.jpg
    People were working very hard in the U.S. in late December 1941. They probably worked Christmas Day too!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    ny usa
    Posts
    568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    274

    Default

    So, the Sidney is home. With a complete apparently factory installed hydraulic tracer unit.

    img_0478.jpg

    She's a big bitch

    I gotta go get the drop deck trailer for the Monarch. Leaving at 5 a.m. More pics to follow.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    30,487
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    It means the Monarch was built in 1942 (serial 13626)

    The "restamp" (on the Bronze tag) suggests to me that a seller was trying to make it "younger" at some point in its life

    Monarch may be able to comment on how they handled rebuilds - I doubt very seriously that it included a crude restamping of the original tag.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider845 View Post
    So, what does that mean?

    Here's what he sent me on the tailstock end:
    img_6554.jpg


    The 5 in 1952 does look a little suspicious.... Rebuild or something? Maybe?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    ny usa
    Posts
    568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    274

    Default

    And the monarch:
    img_0485.jpg

    In it's new home:
    img_0486.jpg


    I gotta say, this is THE nicest lathe I've ever operated. I really can't wait to get the sidney unloaded and set up tomorrow.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    29,109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    9053

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider845 View Post
    And the monarch:
    img_0485.jpg

    In it's new home:
    img_0486.jpg


    I gotta say, this is THE nicest lathe I've ever operated. I really can't wait to get the sidney unloaded and set up tomorrow.
    From the age, I suspect your "inbound" Sidney is the straight spur gear model, not the "Herringbone". Good lathes, regardless, just not quite as impressively quiet for a geared-head as helical-geared or matched helical/"herringbones" can be.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    30,487
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    As can be seen by the hump on the QC gearbox, this Monarch has Lead Screw Reverse on the apron - maybe its all there and still works. Lever is way up high on right end of apron

    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider845 View Post
    And the monarch:
    img_0485.jpg

    In it's new home:
    img_0486.jpg


    I gotta say, this is THE nicest lathe I've ever operated. I really can't wait to get the sidney unloaded and set up tomorrow.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    ny usa
    Posts
    568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    274

    Default

    John, everything is there and working. The Sidney has the same set up, since I just got her unloaded and powered up, I can tell you it all works, too!

    These two are just amazing machines.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    ny usa
    Posts
    568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    274

    Default

    So I think this is their forever home position. ..for now. ....I think.
    img_0491.jpg

  15. Likes cyanidekid liked this post
  16. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    ny usa
    Posts
    568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    274

    Default

    And the hydraulic tracer attachment works flawlessly, too! I did remove it, for a larger work envelope, but it resides under the machine, and only takes 2 minutes to install with 4 bolts.
    This weekend was a total score for me!

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    29,109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    9053

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider845 View Post
    And the hydraulic tracer attachment works flawlessly, too! I did remove it, for a larger work envelope, but it resides under the machine, and only takes 2 minutes to install with 4 bolts.
    This weekend was a total score for me!
    Now THAT puppy, I'd like to know more about, fotos and what make, especially.

    Whyso is that the "French gal" I bought from Milacron (still pictured on his website), is a Cazeneuve HBX-360-BC (14" X 30") that had left the factory in France AS an electro/hydraulic tracer.

    Then kept its hydraulics tank and pump, but lost the Cazeneuve-patented topslide "compound" and its tracer point and pattern mounting rig.

    Chance is slim to NONE of finding an original in working-order, but thanks to another PM member, I have acquired "one and a half" Mimik UT2. Two topslides, with one tank and pump - the part I may not need.

    The Mimik, US made, is still supported and still available NEW. So if/as/when I figure out how to adapt what I have, I can spring for such new bits as required to make it fully functional.

    The more I can add to the collected examples, all makes, the less likely I am to go down the wrong road(s) on that journey of adaptation.

    As to impingement into the work envelope, the Mimik "would do", and would need to be at least partially de-mountable, as it "ordinarily" sits fully up-top.

    The Cazeneuve rig would not have been in the way, as it hangs down the back - the tracer slide on the rear of a longer than usual topslide to the cross, the pattern holder mounting to a pair of long rails in the rear vertical wall of the bed casting.

    IOW "looks as if" it would be in the way, but not really, given work on a lathe has to swing within an imaginary cylinder, even if it isn't (yet) itself a (series of) "right, circular", cylinder or cone shapes.

    To be fair, these no longer compete with CNC, but if you HAVE the goods already, they can do tapers even better than the classical sliding guide-bar TA.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    ny usa
    Posts
    568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    274

    Default

    It is a Sauter ( I'll double check in the a.m.) made in Germany. I'll post pictures.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    29,109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    9053

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider845 View Post
    It is a Sauter ( I'll double check in the a.m.) made in Germany. I'll post pictures.
    Thanks.

    There are a few listings "out in the world", and a mention or several within PM's threads as well. Milacron took in a Schaublin with a Sauter KM-6:

    Tracer attachment for engine lathe.... anyone here use one ?

    There are other members, other mentions, other makes and models, "Right here, on PM"... but not a lot of detail?

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    ny usa
    Posts
    568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    274

    Default

    So, this what it is:
    img_0497.jpg
    img_0496.jpg
    And it attaches to the 4 bolts you can see on the cross slide:
    img_0495.jpg
    I can get any other pictures or whatever you'd like.

    O.k., can't get the video to post. Sorry.

    ...and the flat bar pattern holder
    img_0498.jpg
    Last edited by woodsrider845; 02-17-2020 at 11:47 AM.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    29,109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    9053

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider845 View Post
    So, this what it is:
    img_0497.jpg
    img_0496.jpg
    And it attaches to the 4 bolts you can see on the cross slide:
    img_0495.jpg
    I can get any other pictures or whatever you'd like.

    O.k., can't get the video to post. Sorry.

    ...and the flat bar pattern holder
    img_0498.jpg
    Thanks, that helps flesh-out the info I have been accumulating with a source I had very little info about.

    The info on tracers is "generally" still out there, online, several are still being made, but many others are 'gone", so not always easy to find.

    I grabbed the used Mimik UT2 goods partly because it "seems to be" about the right size to adapt easily to the built-as, but now "former", tracer of my Cazeneuve HBX-360.

    That metrifickated "360" numbering translates to a nominal 14" swing which clears close to 16" over the ways.

    The OTHER reason was that Rosebrook/Mimik IS still a "going-concern" as to new units, new spares, and rebuild service:

    MIMIK tracers for turning

    Take note they also rebuild certain other makes.

    Not sure about how actively, nor at what biz turnover, nor for how much LONGER in a largely (and for Donkey's Years, already..) "CNC world", as...

    .. the address comes up on google view with what appears to be a very modest facility. Or perhaps just the "admin office", or a design/contracting/procurement office.. and not also the "shop"?

    The spool valve and stylus are the heart and soul of a tracer. Need to be very PRECISE, very repeatable, but are not terribly large nor heavy, physically.

    If they can fab or rebuild "several" makes, they can probably rebuild "any" make?

    Could be the operation is down to a one or "few" person operation, "key man" no longer young?

    But at least "not yet GONE".

    Or "so we hope and trust", websites having been known to outlive their creators, etc.

    2CW


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •