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Mondiale Celtic 14 parts

CJD

Aluminum
Joined
Aug 28, 2019
I bought one of these from a dealer in Connecticut 2 months ago. It arrived with a shelled lead gear on the front of the main spindle. I was not pleased, to say the least, as anyone who hand-turned the spindle could immediately tell there was a major problem. The saddle undoubtedly hit the spindle while the lathe was in low-range.

So...the seller told me to send the gear and he "had a guy" who could fix it in 2 weeks. Against my better judgement, I sent the gear.

Skip ahead, it is now into the 6th week. He quit returning phone calls, only responding to texts after week 2. I only pestered every week or 2 until this week, when I have stayed on him to "give me a date" to get the gear back. I even offered to pay the gear guy handsomely. The last communication he said he would give me a tracking number, but of course that never happened and it's been 3 days.

Long sob story. Currently I have a 2000lb boat anchor, as the lathe cannot be used without the main lead gear. It has the dog for high range and the gear for low. I have Googled the planet looking for the gear, but nobody has a 1970's vintage Celtic gear...including Mondiale. I even asked to buy the technical drawing, but of course that is history.

Does anyone out there have knowledge of a Celtic 14 being parted out, where I can get a main gear? If I can't get the gear, I will be parting this one out...It was against my better judgement to send a critical component away. Live and learn.
 
Not sure what a "lead" gear is, but it should be possible to make one based on the mating gears, center distance etc. A picture of where its missing from would help us help you. Do you have a parts book? It should have the tooth count if its one of the feed train gears. Just sayin.

Here is a pretty good cross section of the gear train in your machine- you could circle the missing gear from this.
Mondiale Celtic 14 Lathe
 
It’s the biggest gear in the box to the far right. The big kahuna! The main drive gear. Is the other forum for Celtics? The title is so long it clips on my ipad.
 
The gearbox in this link from above...

Mondiale Celtic 14 Lathe

Update...the gear actually showed up today. It was a real crap job on the gear, but at least I have the gear to make the lathe work. The broken teeth were not ground enough to get to clean metal, so the brazing has a questionable bond to the base steel. The teeth were then ground a bit erratically and the burrs were not removed. It’ll work, but who know for how long. Kind of a shame that the first project on my “new” lathe will be to machine a new gear for the lathe itself!?! Since it is first reduction gear and I am running a VFD, hopefully I won’t need to engage it...using the VFD to slow the spindle.

The lesson learned...no more sight unseen purchases from an unknown vendor.
 
I couldn’t resist...I reduced the speed to 1% and tried the gear. It lasted 3 turns and all the “repaired” teeth shed at once. I’m now gearing up, so to speak, to cut my own gears from scratch. I can run the lathe in high gear while it “repairs itself”.

Can anyone confirm the celtic main drive uses module 2.5 gears?

Of course The JA who sold this to me blocked my calls and text.
 
On the charge slip it reads:

Alan Babin DBA LA Tool
Connecticut 06062
860-796-0230

He posted adds in the local Dallas Craig's list...that's how I came to deal with him. Should have known better.
 
How did you pay? can you cancel payment like with a credit card.
Search here for Al Babin and kick yourself for not looking here first. Thank your lucky stars it is repairable. If it is a common gear type maybe you can buy a new one and have it bored to fit. How many teeth does it have.
Bill D
 
Lesson learned!

The outer spur gear will be relatively easy to cut, but with 115 teeth it’ll be a chore. It does have internal dog teeth, though, which will be more of a challenge. If I had a second lathe I would simply turn off the spur teeth and press on a ring to re-cut good teeth. I have a CNC mill, but I don’t trust removing the old teeth while keeping everything centered.

Anyway, I’ll update how it goes.
 
Maybe you can buy or make a new gear and press in or weld in the center part of the old one. I can not see where this gear fits. Does it have to be metal or would acetal or such be enough. My Harrison uses a plastic gear as a safety in the drive train. Some kind of fibre bakelite material. Of course it is only 3HP.
Is this something a 3d metal printer can do? I would suppose the gear teeth faces would have to be finish polished or something.
Bil lD.
 
The old atlas horizontal milling machine used a zamac(pot metal) drive gear for the table motion. If it crashed into the end limits the gear would strip out as a safety feature.
Bil lD.
 
Lesson learned!

The outer spur gear will be relatively easy to cut, but with 115 teeth it’ll be a chore. It does have internal dog teeth, though, which will be more of a challenge. If I had a second lathe I would simply turn off the spur teeth and press on a ring to re-cut good teeth. I have a CNC mill, but I don’t trust removing the old teeth while keeping everything centered.

Anyway, I’ll update how it goes.

CNC mill to make the gear can do its own indexing, directly, yah?

If not, suggest not using a dividing head "directly". Make a spacer plate, 115 slots.

If yah screw the pooch, you can weld-patch and correct it easily.

THEN it will be able to deliver a perfect gear. Can't cut in the wrong place. If you skip, just go back. Gear won't give damn it had a tooth cut out of sequential order.

Get weary-eyed or tired cranking a DH directly? NOW you can FUBAR the gear.

114th tooth, too, Lybarger's Corollary as it is.
 
The good news is the old Bridgeport has a really nice Haas HRT210 rotary table, so no hard work with an indexer. I am more worried about the cutter wearing out during the 115 cuts. Is anyone experienced teeth cutting? is it best to do several light cuts or a single, slower heavy cut to best preserve the cutter life?

I hear what ya'll are saying about the softer materials. I am starting to lean towards bronze, but I bet even a nylon blank would work, with no more worries about tearing up the entire drive train if something hits. In fact, I am sitting here thinking the best of all worlds will be a nylon press-on ring, and then cut the teeth. I could even cut a couple for future feaux pax.
 
The good news is the old Bridgeport has a really nice Haas HRT210 rotary table, so no hard work with an indexer. I am more worried about the cutter wearing out during the 115 cuts. Is anyone experienced teeth cutting? is it best to do several light cuts or a single, slower heavy cut to best preserve the cutter life?
This is going to sound TEDIOUS as Hell.. but if you want GOOD teeth profiles with that many teeth?

Three passes. Three cutters. Or mebbe a re-grind. You'll see why limited to what I have, here, I'd make a spacer FIRST? My Elliot DH is also a spacer-head, so "easy for me to say", given I do NOT have that Haas.

Rough-rough. NEAR-final. Close to "shaving" as you can get so that last pass the cutter will hold to clean, true shape.

Page Two:

W/R resilient material and "spares for future needs"?

There's some good stuff "out there" as can be "filled" to modify it's wear characteristics.

You COULD make a mold instead of the gear, directly? The part isn't that deep, nor is it complex in multiple dimensions and spaces. Then CAST your replacement gears.

And offer them to others?
 
I have never made gears and I probably never will so... Is it harder to make a mold so a gear can be cast in plastic or is it easier to make one gear. Seems like making one gear is less work then internals of a mold. I suppose the mold could have a back plate added after milling so there would be no tricky internal corners.
Of course any mold would have to allow for draft or be made in segments so the gear can come out of the mold. That is another issue entirely.
Bill D
 
I have never made gears and I probably never will so... Is it harder to make a mold so a gear can be cast in plastic or is it easier to make one gear. Seems like making one gear is less work then internals of a mold. I suppose the mold could have a back plate added after milling so there would be no tricky internal corners.
Of course any mold would have to allow for draft or be made in segments so the gear can come out of the mold. That is another issue entirely.
Bill D

Yes, a back plate. Thereafter, it's a push-out, along the axis of rotation, a skosh of shrinkage and/or resilience, and/or differential heating/cooling - but not MUCH of either/any - your friend for a change.

Not chasing max efficiency for high-volume, here. "Fewsies" if not "onesie", rather.

As to cutting? It is basically an internally-toothed gear, hence agnostic on a slotter, harder to hold on a shaper, not easy at all on a general-purpose mill.

All that DIY armchairish stuff said?

The Mondiale is a good enough lathe, doesn't seem to need but this ONE major spend? Such things average-out, yah?

I b'lieve I'd not further f**k about.

Just send-off the damaged gear to one of our several "real" gear gurus, right here on PM, and pay his price to sort it and make a new one on the "proper" machinery.

Chickn's s**t approach perhaps, but his rice-bowl not mine, whilst I, too, have other stuff to attend to he cannot do for ME, nor I for HIM.

One hand washes the other...

:)
 








 
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