Mondiale Celtic 14 parts - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    Like mentioned To me the old gear looks to be CI
    Well, yes. I did say "only if it is CHEAP in volume production"?
    It IS broken, yah? That practically SHOUTS "Cast iron".

    I do not like riveting that material
    It can work but I would not use mild steel rivets for sure
    And if there is space for boltheads What is the problem then
    And certainly Do Not Weld
    No "problem" at all. Just re-purpose the silly POS to holding down the edge of a tarp in a breeze, same as the old disk brake rotors.

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    Interesting. I was leaning towards shrinking a ring onto the old gear, but it looks like you both are in favor of a mechanical joint. Lots of food for thought...thanks! Glad both are not in favor of cast iron...but if there is a chance that’s what the original is, then I’ll avoid welding. At least not before trying it on a sample of the outer teeth after they’re machined off.

    Right now I have the tooling slowly coming in for a repair. I will keep sourcing stock gears. Whichever option comes in first will get the first shot.

    Another option I had written off, only because Al’s “Guy” did such a poor job of it, is grinding and brazing up the broken teeth. The gear has a previous repair using the brazed bronze, and it has held up very well. What is your experience with the brazing repair? It would probably be the easiest fix, if it is durable.

    Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJD View Post
    Interesting. I was leaning towards shrinking a ring onto the old gear, but it looks like you both are in favor of a mechanical joint.
    Steel outer, CI inner, that can work. The reverse, not so well.
    I'd still dutch key it. Well.. to be fair, Peter may have a different name for that - perhaps Anglo monkey-patch?



    Another option I had written off, only because Al’s “Guy” did such a poor job of it, is grinding and brazing up the broken teeth. The gear has a previous repair using the brazed bronze, and it has held up very well.
    Pushing your luck beyond sane levels at this point on this gear.

    First go was a stressor. Second go was a dis-assed-her.

    You'd be on the THIRD go with the heat. And on a gear that had to have been hit with enough shock in the first place to have broken off those "full strength" teeth, then the repaired ones, next go.

    High risk the first go, already.

    Now - if the best you can find is another damaged one with a coupla teeth out of it, as hasn't yet been messed-with, and your Bronze braze will be its FIRST repair? Far better odds it can hold. Especially if you know it is wise to baby it a tad, rather than abuse it.
    Last edited by thermite; 11-23-2019 at 09:10 AM.

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    Good point. I should have definitively checked the material while it was out. Most of my work is automotive, where steel gears are a given. Cast never crossed my mind until you guys mentioned it.

    On another topic...I hope to convert this mill to CNC, as the project after the gear. Peter, have you run across any Celtic conversions over there?

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    Wierd mill you have
    I see it as a lathe
    I do not see much conversions at all

    Peter

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    Duh! All my time has been on the mill the last few weeks, so that's where most of my brain is?!?

    I got tired of waiting for my Chinesium 1.5 module cutters to arrive and ordered another set with a faster shipping date.

    Before I can get started on the big 2.5 module gear, I have to re-make the feed selector gears, which are 1.5 module with 22 and 24 teeth. Until then I can use the lathe, but have no auto-feed. So project on hold until the little cutters arrive...

    ...and before anyone says to just buy the little gears, which are readily available, I plan to use them as practice for the large gear. It's all part of the fun.

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    Been waiting 4 weeks for the M2.5 #2 and M1.5 #4 cutters. Yesterday a single M1.5 #2 showed up. Uhhgg. I have re-ordered from a US based company. 4 times the price as the Chinesium, but it's about time to get this project moving forward.

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    Hey Peter, if you are still out there I could use a bit of help. I finally got the Module 1.5 cutter for the lead screw gears I have to make. They do not match. The selector gears are so worn I think it threw off my measurements, and therefore the module calculation. I have ordered a module 1 cutter, but am now having thoughts that it may not even be metric.

    Do you have any sources who might know the module or PA of the lead screw selector gears? The lathe is a mix of inches and mm's, so I can't be entirely sure of anything. At least for the large drive gear I will be cutting both the gear and pinion, so I know they will match. The selector gears match about 20 other gears, so the correct module is essential.

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    For that size of lathe about all have M1.5 if made in europe
    So why yours do not match is a mystery to me also
    Perhaps your cutter cuts a bit deeper Or your cutter is marked wrong Who knows
    So give us a toothcount on several of those lead screw gears and its OD in MM

    If it is DP it should be DP16 or 18 But check that because I mess up imperial all the time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    .. I mess up imperial all the time
    The reverse, per history.

    Seen New York lately? Ga-ron-tee it was better run under Peter Stuyvesant!


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    Another Peter from Holland

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    Thanks for responding, Peter. I will measure the gears and get back. When I hold the cutter up, a #4 mod1.5, it doesn't quite fit down into the bottom between the teeth. This could be the difference between a hobbed and cut gear, though. From about the middle of the teeth outward the gears are pretty mangled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    Another Peter from Holland
    Yah.. that was EXACTLY HALF of what had me chucklin'

    The other "half" was how advanced the Nederlands were socially and legally at the time as to the property and legal rights of the other "half" of the human race compared to damn near the entire rest of the so-called "civilized" world.

    To wit - the rights of competent and capable WOMEN. As most of them are, actually. They have to be.

    That had carried to the new world, where whilst still under Dutch law, a woman could build a business empire on her own merit. The form of her marriage, if any, as much her choice as his.

    At least one had done. The rest became part of OUR history. Not to mention Neuiw Amsterdam being a safer and friendlier, lower-crime place to live THEN -even when LOSING wars with the "indians", than it was to become most years, SINCE under British rule, local rule, and episodes of near as dammit mob rule or NO rule of law atall!

    The Dutch had never had to resort to shelling their own citizenry in crowded residential neighbourhoods with military artillery. We did exactly that!

    US history is nowhere near as clean, neat, and tidy as some folk would "wish it had been" and pontifically posture over.

    Just in case those gears seemed to be taking over the world as "too complicated".


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    Finally got the players lined up. Making an MNTB30 arbor for the cutter and I'll get to work...finally!

    And the selector gear is still an enigma. The module 1 cutter arrived, and it is very close to the tooth patterns. But, when I run the calculations for teeth and diameter for the originals, they exactly match a module 1.5. They are very likely a proprietary shape. I'll make the new selector gear out of brass and hope they wear in to the correct shape...

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    Here is a quick pic of my home made arbor, working on cutting the lathe lead screw selector gears. Working in brass was like cutting butter. A few of the pessimists had me concerned, but the gear cutting is not hard at all. In the end I used the Mod1 cutter with a slightly lighter cut depth than usual. The final backlash for the selector gear is .005". I think I am up to taking a stab at the main drive gear now. A few jobs to finish and I'll be getting to work on the big gear.

    More to follow...

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    Hello, as I mentioned in another thread: the factory is very close to my house. I also know the owner of the Mondiale plant. They have tons of old spares (used but in perfect working order) If you give me part numbers (or good descriptions) I wan to go there and ask for the price of the parts. I could also check shipping cost with DHL. I don't want to gain anything, it wouls just cost you the real cost. Let me know if I can help

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    Quote Originally Posted by pieterb View Post
    Hello, as I mentioned in another thread: the factory is very close to my house. I also know the owner of the Mondiale plant. They have tons of old spares (used but in perfect working order) If you give me part numbers (or good descriptions) I wan to go there and ask for the price of the parts. I could also check shipping cost with DHL. I don't want to gain anything, it wouls just cost you the real cost. Let me know if I can help

    CJD
    Here is your chance


    Peter


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